I liked your post MandM! I think you were the first I've spoken with on this issue that openly acknowledges that the difference in the treatment of leather and fur is not moral one, but one of logistics for animal rights activists.
What's your take on fur clothes??
- Thread starter mcb100
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I don't really understand why the 'fur' issue is so hot. It seems hypocritical that people eat their beefsteak, wear their leather shoes, carry their leather bags and briefcases and passionately say "I won't wear fur!". Is a cow any different from a mink?
I always thought that the difference between leather and fur, and why one can be for leather and against fur, is the way that they are killed. A lot of animals seem to be skinned alive if their pelt is going for fur while they are killed if they're going to go towards meat or leather. Not sure if thats totally true but that was what I heard.
^^^no, in my opinion a cow is no different from a mink and neither are different from the dogs and cats that we love
. I don't buy leather briefcases or bags (which puts me in a minority here -- though I still like my logo canvas and nylon bags
or eat meat.
BUT, I also recognize that the farming industry -- where we get our leather and meat -- is separate from the fur industry. I see them as two issues, both of which could use a lot of reform. I would like farm animals to be treated more kindly and to be killed humanely. Ideally, I would like everyone to stop eating them all together and provide living space for them so that they could live free lives. However, getting everyone to stop eating meat and finding a way for farm animals to live in sanctuaries or in the wild will be a very big challenge. Therefore, I just campaign to be more humane with the farm animals since I don't think everyone is ready to give up meat.
I think that human beings are ready and able, however, to either massively reform the fur industry or to give up on fur all together. I think there is a real possibility that we could shut down the fur trappers and ranchers by refusing to buy their products. They kill animals ONLY for fur -- they don't sell the meat. So, if no one buys fur, they will not have any economic reason at all to kill animals.
This would force them to either start treating their animals kindly and slaughtering them as painlessly and humanely as possible...or it would end the brutal killing of harp seals, minks, rabbits and all of the other fur animals forever
. I don't buy leather briefcases or bags (which puts me in a minority here -- though I still like my logo canvas and nylon bags or eat meat.BUT, I also recognize that the farming industry -- where we get our leather and meat -- is separate from the fur industry. I see them as two issues, both of which could use a lot of reform. I would like farm animals to be treated more kindly and to be killed humanely. Ideally, I would like everyone to stop eating them all together and provide living space for them so that they could live free lives. However, getting everyone to stop eating meat and finding a way for farm animals to live in sanctuaries or in the wild will be a very big challenge. Therefore, I just campaign to be more humane with the farm animals since I don't think everyone is ready to give up meat.
I think that human beings are ready and able, however, to either massively reform the fur industry or to give up on fur all together. I think there is a real possibility that we could shut down the fur trappers and ranchers by refusing to buy their products. They kill animals ONLY for fur -- they don't sell the meat. So, if no one buys fur, they will not have any economic reason at all to kill animals.
This would force them to either start treating their animals kindly and slaughtering them as painlessly and humanely as possible...or it would end the brutal killing of harp seals, minks, rabbits and all of the other fur animals forever
I personally don't like fur and i wouldn't wear it.
I too, have heard that animals are skinned alive for fur, and that totally puts me off.
I guess you could say, if it's dead already then what does it matter?
But it's all about supply and demand.
On the other side, i do like to use leather bags/shoes, and that too is from an animal.
But, if the stories are true, leather is a by-product of the meat industry.
Whether that's true or not...who knows?
I too, have heard that animals are skinned alive for fur, and that totally puts me off.
I guess you could say, if it's dead already then what does it matter?
But it's all about supply and demand.
On the other side, i do like to use leather bags/shoes, and that too is from an animal.
But, if the stories are true, leather is a by-product of the meat industry.
Whether that's true or not...who knows?
I think Couturegirl and I had a conversation about this once . . . . .
I just want to say that I like how this thread has not gotten heated and that we all respect each other's opinions. I'd like to point out that the one thing we can all agree on is that we love animals and we strongly oppose the unnecessary torture of animals.
The problem is, different people have different definitions of what constitutes 'unnecessary torture.' For some it's eating meat, for some it's animal testing and for some it's wearing fur. Those are personal choices, and I believe in the concept of "Disagree with me but please don't try to convert me."
I'm only going to talk about the fur aspect, since this is a fur thread.
I've heard what various animal rights groups have to say about fur farms and how the animals are treated. I decided to research it for myself. I went to the various Fur Commission websites.
I found that, in regulated fur farms, the animals are treated humanely and then euthanized. When animals are agitated, it shows up on the fur.
(Essentially, if the animals were tortured and skinned alive, it will ruin the pelt.)
I love fur, but as humanely as some fur farms treat the animals, I still don't like the idea of animals being killed just so I could buy a coat.
If I ever decide to buy a fur coat, I only want to go vintage and I do NOT want seal.
This is why I believe it is possible to love animals and be okay with fur.
I just want to say that I like how this thread has not gotten heated and that we all respect each other's opinions. I'd like to point out that the one thing we can all agree on is that we love animals and we strongly oppose the unnecessary torture of animals.
The problem is, different people have different definitions of what constitutes 'unnecessary torture.' For some it's eating meat, for some it's animal testing and for some it's wearing fur. Those are personal choices, and I believe in the concept of "Disagree with me but please don't try to convert me."
I'm only going to talk about the fur aspect, since this is a fur thread.
I've heard what various animal rights groups have to say about fur farms and how the animals are treated. I decided to research it for myself. I went to the various Fur Commission websites.
I found that, in regulated fur farms, the animals are treated humanely and then euthanized. When animals are agitated, it shows up on the fur.
(Essentially, if the animals were tortured and skinned alive, it will ruin the pelt.)
I love fur, but as humanely as some fur farms treat the animals, I still don't like the idea of animals being killed just so I could buy a coat.
If I ever decide to buy a fur coat, I only want to go vintage and I do NOT want seal.
This is why I believe it is possible to love animals and be okay with fur.
I guess I am also uncomfortable with the idea that animals are being killed just so I could eat their flesh, and hides of some animals who are not killed for their flesh (and therefore not a byproduct) are used for shoes and bags.
It's always at the back of my mind, though I do eat meat and wear leather. I don't consider wearing fur being any better or worse. There is a bunch of philosophical commentary in my religion about cause and effect and karma so it weighs on my mind sometimes.
Very true!! After researching all of that a while back, I have found it to be propaganda. I know a lot of people are against Peta because of the misleading things they read, but Peta does a lot of good to help end animal suffering, even if they do go to the extremes at times. They, along with many other animals rights groups, do these things to draw attention to make people listen to their cause. I believe in what they try to accomplish, which is more rights and less suffering for those who don't have a voice.I don't know the details about all the ant-Peta sites (or all the details about Peta, for that matter), but most of these sites are sponsored by the meat/leather and/or fur industries.
It is wise to not believe everything you read on the internet!
There is nothing humane at all that goes on in the fur industry. The animals are already agitated from their awful nightmarish experiences that many of them experience from the day they are born. They live and grow up in small cages where of course, affects them physically and psychologically. They do not euthanize these animals humanely at all, more of because they have more interest in the profits and money rather than the interest of the welfare of the animal. Instead they are killed in awful, terrible ways to preserve the pelt. I rather not discuss what happens to them here, as it is sad and gruesome, but all the methods are by no means humane.
I am against the fur industry. I find it evil and unnecessary for the obvious reasons. (btw, I am a vegetarian.) I do buy leather, but because I believe that since it is a by-product, the main purpose for killing the animal was for the meat(of which I do not consume.) Despite this I do not buy leather in excess, I would rather buy canvas or nylon bags, but I still do buy leather. If the meat industry miraculousy ended, then I would not wear leather b/c then it wouldn't be by-product. Fur is not by-product. I feel for those poor, innocent animals.
The one fur item that I still own is a pair of old-school Saami reindeer fur boots.
It was actually chloehandbags who made me feel better about them, by pointing out that the Saami have used every part of the reindeer for centuries, for food, shelter, as well as wearable items. It is a staple of survival in the Arctic climate.
So it is somewhat less distasteful than wearing something that has been killed only for the purpose of obtaining the fur, and while I might mourn the poor Rudolph who keeps my feet dry and warm in the most inclement of weathers, I can be reasonably sure that his sacrifice also fed a family and provided them with tools and a new roof as well.
In a way, I suppose that it is an attempt to justify something that I will be the first to admit is an unjustifiable hypocrisy, but I can understand the point of view of those who would argue that morally, there is a difference between people of an Arctic tribe who kill the reindeer they need to survive and no more, even though, in this particular case, somebody's grandpa did make an extra pair of boots that sat around for a few decades, as opposed to the organized and frequently unspeakably gruesome and inhumane slaughter of animals that are not needed for anybody's survival, that are killed solely for the purpose of providing an unnecessary luxury item, and one for which there is a limitless supply of substitutes - in fact, faux fur has many advantages over animal skins.
It was actually chloehandbags who made me feel better about them, by pointing out that the Saami have used every part of the reindeer for centuries, for food, shelter, as well as wearable items. It is a staple of survival in the Arctic climate.
So it is somewhat less distasteful than wearing something that has been killed only for the purpose of obtaining the fur, and while I might mourn the poor Rudolph who keeps my feet dry and warm in the most inclement of weathers, I can be reasonably sure that his sacrifice also fed a family and provided them with tools and a new roof as well.
In a way, I suppose that it is an attempt to justify something that I will be the first to admit is an unjustifiable hypocrisy, but I can understand the point of view of those who would argue that morally, there is a difference between people of an Arctic tribe who kill the reindeer they need to survive and no more, even though, in this particular case, somebody's grandpa did make an extra pair of boots that sat around for a few decades, as opposed to the organized and frequently unspeakably gruesome and inhumane slaughter of animals that are not needed for anybody's survival, that are killed solely for the purpose of providing an unnecessary luxury item, and one for which there is a limitless supply of substitutes - in fact, faux fur has many advantages over animal skins.
I would NEVER wear fur, period. The fur trade is so cruel its discusting, they skin the animals alive for their fur. And lots of the designers ensure that the animal does not even lead a normal life before, to ensure it has not mated, so the fur is in perfect condition.
I am a vegetarian, i am fine with others eating meat as long as it is organic etc.
But fur, it's like wearing a blood diamond and knowing it was one. The torture that animal has been through, just to be stuck on a womans jacket so she can look good, i would rather walk around naked.
If you like teh look of fur, just wear faux, no cruelty involved x
I am a vegetarian, i am fine with others eating meat as long as it is organic etc.
But fur, it's like wearing a blood diamond and knowing it was one. The torture that animal has been through, just to be stuck on a womans jacket so she can look good, i would rather walk around naked.
If you like teh look of fur, just wear faux, no cruelty involved x
I just recently heard that faux fur maynot really be "faux fur" for example Jay Z's clothing label RocaWear and Diddy's clothing label Sean John have been investingated for using Coon-dog fur. I don't know the details but what I do know is the humane society did random DNA testing on so called fuax fur and found clothing labels are using actual fur from animals and advertising them as faux fur. i don't know how excatly this can be cheaper or more cost effective but this is extremly cruel. so next time you think you are doing a good deed by buying the faux fur.. think again. Just don't buy any fur.
here is a link
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1757554/posts
here is a link
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1757554/posts
