What happens when a seller cancels a sale? Is the buyer, automatically, refunded?

The only solution that would explain her story is that both the employee of EBay who was supposed to send you an email about cancelling the sale and the employee of Paypal who was to give u refund, left their companies and went on the Africa mission with her, lying to her that her sale was sorted! :s:upsidedown:


:roflmfao::roflmfao::roflmfao:

Although, is this scenario, even vaguely, possible? It's long, so please bear with me(!):


1. The seller has more than one sale that she has to cancel (according to her, this was the case).

2. She sends me an email explanation (as she claims to have done), but I don't receive it, for some reason (spam filter?).

3. She thinks she has agreed with me to cancel the sale (but she has, actually, only agreed with the other buyers to do so, as I didn't receive her email explanation).

4. She sends eBay the Mutual Cancellation Agreement.

5. eBay send me a notification of cancellation of sale email, but I don't receive it, for some reason (again, spam filter?) and so, I can't and don't respond.

6. Therefore, the cancellation remains unconfirmed and unrefunded.

7. Seller goes off on her mission of mercy thinking everything is fine and that I have been refunded, along with everyone else.

8. I try to contact her, to ask her where the hanger is; she, of course, doesn't respond.

9. I file a Paypal dispute, she still doesn't respond as she is still in Africa (and/or hospital, as she claims).

10. I escalate to a claim; still no answer from seller.

11. Paypal, for some reason, do not feel the need to inform me that the seller has sent eBay a Mutual Cancellation Agreement, or that eBay has sent me a notification of cancellation of sale email.

12. Paypal refund me via a reversal.


I know this still wouldn't explain why she lied about a 'findings' email, that told me not to leave her a neg, as the sale was, effectively, cancelled; but maybe she lied about that just to try to make my accusation of her leaving me a retaliatory neg seem null and void (as opposed to it being part of a scam)?

Question is, if the above scenario is possible, does she still deserve a neg, or not? :shrugs:

Oh God, I think my brain's going to explode (luckily, at this point, it will only be a small whimper! :lol: ). :Push:


I dont see a possibility of it being either an honest mistake or a technical glitch ...file non performing seller...it doesnt matter if its 4 pounds or 4k she fed you BS big time and she deserves a big fat neg.


Yes, I think I probably agree with you, at this stage.

Even if she only lied about the 'findings' email, that's bad enough, really, isn't it?

BTW, how do I go about filing a non-performing seller?
 
I think you have wasted more than enough of your time on this woman who is quite obviously a liar who's been caught out.

I wouldn't even accept the hanger for free as it's like she's trying to placate you when she should have simply sent the damn thing in the first place!!
 
Did you saw the cancellation agreement on Ebay? If she indeed send it it, the notice should be still with the item. And also there's no way Ebay or PayPal will refund you on her behalf, not even with an agreement. If you didn't receive the refund before was simply because she didn't sent it. To process a refund the seller must go directly to the transaction page on PayPal and send a refund from there herself, then you receive the notice. She is clearly lying to you. Again is not ebay's or Paypal's responsability to give you a refund in her behalf unless you file and win a claim of course. At least you already haveyour money back. Sorry for the feedback.
 
mooks said:
I think you have wasted more than enough of your time on this woman who is quite obviously a liar who's been caught out.

I wouldn't even accept the hanger for free as it's like she's trying to placate you when she should have simply sent the damn thing in the first place!!


Yes, I think you're, almost certainly, right, mooks and I really appreciate your advice. :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

The only reason I'm agonising over this petty issue, is that I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt, if there is, even a small chance, that they may be innocent; as I would hate to be wrongly accused, myself.

So, I am just trying to make sure that I am definitely doing the right thing in denying her a mutual withdrawal and especially, if I also decide to report her as a non-performing seller (if I ever figure out how to do that! :lol: ).
 
Did you saw the cancellation agreement on Ebay?


No, definitely not, genie. :nogood:



If she indeed send it it, the notice should be still with the item.


Do you mean that it should show up on the auction listing?

Here's the original listing:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330181716188



And also there's no way Ebay or PayPal will refund you on her behalf, not even with an agreement. If you didn't receive the refund before was simply because she didn't sent it. To process a refund the seller must go directly to the transaction page on PayPal and send a refund from there herself, then you receive the notice. She is clearly lying to you.


I see, so even if there had been a Mutual Cancellation Agreement sent to eBay by her and I had received a notification of cancellation of sale email from eBay and I had confirmed it and so, the transaction had been mutually cancelled; she would still have had to refund me, personally?


Again is not ebay's or Paypal's responsability to give you a refund in her behalf unless you file and win a claim of course. At least you already haveyour money back. Sorry for the feedback.


Thanks, genie, I really appreciate it. :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

The retaliatory fb is slightly annoying, but I'm sure I'll live! :biggrin:

As I say, I'm pretty sure that my fb will affect her, far more than her fb will affect me! :tup:
 
Do you mean that it should show up on the auction listing?





I see, so even if there had been a Mutual Cancellation Agreement sent to eBay by her and I had received a notification of cancellation of sale email from eBay and I had confirmed it and so, the transaction had been mutually cancelled; she would still have had to refund me, personally?

NEG her ! the notice should show up on the auction listing and it is not possible to have an automatic refund, she would have to log to her account and refund you manually...stop blaming your poor spam folder your email account will hate you if it reads this thread ! ;)

btw kudos to you for being so understanding and considerate with the seller..I dont think i would try so hard to give the benefit of the doubt...NEG ! :angel:
 
NEG her ! the notice should show up on the auction listing and it is not possible to have an automatic refund, she would have to log to her account and refund you manually...stop blaming your poor spam folder your email account will hate you if it reads this thread ! ;)


Oh God, you're right! :wtf:

I never thought of my poor email account's feelings in all of this! :lol:

So funny, thanks for making me laugh! :biggrin:


btw kudos to you for being so understanding and considerate with the seller..I dont think i would try so hard to give the benefit of the doubt...NEG ! :angel:


Thanks, Natalia. :flowers:
 
BTW, I forgot to say, that after I forwarded her Paypal's 'Resolution of Your Case' email, this was her response:


"... My view is that Paypal finding in [chloehandbags'] favour is effectively a cancellation of the transaction, hence my initial response. [chloehandbags] was refunded by Paypal but this was on behalf of me and not for me. I myself have not requested the withdrawal of [chloehandbags'] negative feedback from my profile, but have stated that l will consider the mutual withdrawal of feedback, I'm afraid. If [chloehandbags] is not prepared to take this route, and still feels negative feedback is justified, then she must follow her instincts and close the case. I think enough has been said on the issue... Respectfully, this is my final email with regard to how I wish to proceed. I will of course check to see the outcome.... x"


This wasn't her final email/message, of course, as she then sent me the offer of the free hanger, after I had got a bit annoyed in my reply to the above message and had given her 24 hours to acknowledge her mistake and apologise (which she still hasn't done, of course, almost 24hrs later).

How on earth can a seller claim to think that Paypal finding in a buyer's favour, after the buyer has been forced to file a dispute and then escalate to a claim, is 'effectively a cancellation of the transaction' and therefore, undeserving of a neg? :shrugs:
 
BTW, I forgot to say, that after I forwarded her Paypal's 'Resolution of Your Case' email, this was her response:


"... My view is that Paypal finding in [chloehandbags'] favour is effectively a cancellation of the transaction, hence my initial response. [chloehandbags] was refunded by Paypal but this was on behalf of me and not for me. I myself have not requested the withdrawal of [chloehandbags'] negative feedback from my profile, but have stated that l will consider the mutual withdrawal of feedback, I'm afraid. If [chloehandbags] is not prepared to take this route, and still feels negative feedback is justified, then she must follow her instincts and close the case. I think enough has been said on the issue... Respectfully, this is my final email with regard to how I wish to proceed. I will of course check to see the outcome.... x"


This wasn't her final email/message, of course, as she then sent me the offer of the free hanger, after I had got a bit annoyed in my reply to the above message and had given her 24 hours to acknowledge her mistake and apologise (which she still hasn't done, of course, almost 24hrs later).

How on earth can a seller claim to think that Paypal finding in a buyer's favour, after the buyer has been forced to file a dispute and then escalate to a claim, is 'effectively a cancellation of the transaction' and therefore, undeserving of a neg? :shrugs:

her email sounds like she is a lawyer a lot of fancy words, no actual meaning and trying to completely turn the situation around! :rolleyes: (no offense to real nice lawyers on PF just a joke )

leash off the tiger from your avatar, chloe and give him her address :wlae:
 
^ ROFL! :roflmfao::roflmfao::roflmfao:

After all this, I wouldn't allow him to sully his paws on her! :nuts:

Yes, ITA with you, Natalia.

Her words all sound very intelligent and reasonable and she seems well educated; but there is no real substance, or basis in fact, for anything she claims.

She's now given me an ultimatum to reply by 9.00pm GMT; otherwise, the case will be closed, unresolved.

Yes, that's right she's given me an ultimatum! :roflmfao:

It must be because I didn't reply to her hanger offer for 24 hours! :blink: How frustrating that must have been for her! :lol:

Here's my, equally verbose, reply to that hanger offer message (hope I got all the facts right, BTW! :sweatdrop: ):


Hi [Mediator's name],

Sorry for the delay.

None of this seemed to add up, at all, so I've been asking fellow members of the Purse Forum (who are mainly sellers and so would, normally, be expected to see it from the seller's side, if anything) about whether what the seller says happened could be, even vaguely, possible:


http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-for...-cancels-sale-buyer-automatically-239933.html


Everybody who has answered, so far, has said that what she claimed happened in her initial response (i.e. 'The buyer was refunded in full for the cost of the item and ebay clearly advised in its subsequent 'findings' email that negative feedback should not be left since the sale had effectively been cancelled.') is not even, vaguely, possible, even if the emails had gone astray, as if the sale had been cancelled:


a) it would show up on the auction listing (which it doesn't),

b) she would have had to have manually refunded me, anyway (so, I would have received my refund and the refund would show up on Paypal),

c) and it had been a mutually agreed cancellation;

i) I would have had to have received notification and agree to it (which I, obviously, didn't, on either count),

ii) eBay DO NOT send out emails, before or after mutually agreed cancellations, or refunds, telling people to not leave feedback/negative feedback, EVER.


In fact, eBay, apparently, never instruct anyone not to leave feedback, unless eBay, themselves, have cancelled the auction, while it is still running (and so, obviously, before payment has been made); which is, clearly, not the case in this instance and is, in no way, the same as Paypal, weeks after the auction has finished, reversing payment through a dispute/claim filed by the buyer (i.e. me)!

Please thank her for her offer of a hanger, but tell her that I am not here to try to extract free gifts from her; but rather, in an attempt to discover the truth.

As I stated before, this is a matter of conscience, to me and the only way that I would have even considered a mutual withdrawal, is if I had received from her a credible explanation as to what happened, an acknowledgment of her mistake(s) and an unconditional apology for putting me though this debacle and leaving me an undeserved, purely retaliatory, neg. But, at this stage, having heard the opinions of my fellow tPFers, who have indicated, without exception, that Angela is, undoubtedly, lying through her teeth; I feel that it is now far too late for any of that, I'm afraid.

BTW, I find it laughable that she is now trying to impose time restrictions on me, considering the weeks she left me waiting and the complete ignoral of all my emails; even the one sent after she was back from her supposed 'mission' and 'hospitalisation'.

Please refer her to the thread I have posted on the Purse Forum, as it may, hopefully, serve as an education in eBay 'good practice' for her and she can also read the opinions of other eBay sellers (and buyers) of her actions.

Please, also, feel free to quote any, or all, of this message and please tell her that I hope she will be very happy with her, totally deserved and never to be removed, negative feedback; over a £1.70+p&p hanger! :smile:

Thanks again for all your help in this case, [Mediator's name] and I'm sorry there couldn't have been a happier outcome.

Take Care,

x
 
LOL ! and how does she plan to close the case, if ts being reviewed by Paypal?

I think she must have tripped and fallen on the metal hook of the hanger. You unfortunately have to deal with the results :upsidedown:
 
^ LOL! :lol: Yes, I, genuinely, wondered whether she'd been 'hospitalised' (as she claims she was) for a brain injury, TBH!

This is a SquareTrade case and apparently, they can close it on her direction, even though I opened it:


'I have received a message from the buyer requesting that this matter be resolved by 21:00 GMT Monday, (or 9PM Jan 28th).

I can therefore close the case as unresolved at the direction of the respondent, unless a resolution has been accepted by that time?'



BTW, the Mediator keeps calling the seller (i.e. her) the buyer, for some reason; I think it's probably because it's so unusual for a buyer to file a case with SquareTrade! :lol: