Westworld

If this show turns out to be another LOST I don't think I can take it. That was a show filled with endless speculation and the writers could not figure out how to end it because it became so ridiculous. I look back on it and think what a waste of time it was.

From what I've read, the writers have already written every episode for 5 seasons.
 
If this show turns out to be another LOST I don't think I can take it. That was a show filled with endless speculation and the writers could not figure out how to end it because it became so ridiculous. I look back on it and think what a waste of time it was.

Because the show is so huge they can't get too complicated they have to stick to certain rules, I suspect a fair amount about we're speculating about will be revealed by the end of season 1. Lost was still the traditional episodic TV show and it was really clear after a certain point that they were winging it.

Maybe the same will happen here who knows but with a Nolan at the helm this thing is probably going to fit together like a swiss watch.
 
Keep it coming! I love hearing your speculations, this is what makes this show great.

I wonder if the MIB has realized that he is no longer mortal and believes the maze leads to resurrection?

There are more clues on the Delos Destinations website. If you read the Terms of Agreement when you sign up it is quite interesting.
^ Yeah I saw that website... it's pretty great.

Why do you think the MIB is not human?

The show has to play by certain rules so when the child said the maze isn't for him... i.e. it's only for hosts.... I think it confirms he's human.

I was thinking that if he's the older version of William he's interested in the maze because of Dolores. Perhaps he wants Delores to be truly conscious (possibly because of his past feelings for her) and is out to save her. William is seemingly attracted to Dolores and when he's the white hat he's very much a decent guy who's invested in his "real" life. As the black hat MIB he's cynical, jaded and seemingly detached from his previous life, he's spent too much time in the "unreal".... he's pretty much the opposite of what he was when he entered (if he is William). Perhaps by pursuing this maze and thereby saving Dolores (in whatever way it might saves her) he's trying to regain a lost innocence.

I think it's significant that they show us both William and MIB picking up the can of condensed milk when they meet Dolores and that specific hats are key parts of the two character's costumes/identity.
 
^ Yeah I saw that website... it's pretty great.

Why do you think the MIB is not human?

The show has to play by certain rules so when the child said the maze isn't for him... i.e. it's only for hosts.... I think it confirms he's human.

I was thinking that if he's the older version of William he's interested in the maze because of Dolores. Perhaps he wants Delores to be truly conscious (possibly because of his past feelings for her) and is out to save her. William is seemingly attracted to Dolores and when he's the white hat he's very much a decent guy who's invested in his "real" life. As the black hat MIB he's cynical, jaded and seemingly detached from his previous life, he's spent too much time in the "unreal".... he's pretty much the opposite of what he was when he entered (if he is William). Perhaps by pursuing this maze and thereby saving Dolores (in whatever way it might saves her) he's trying to regain a lost innocence.

I think it's significant that they show us both William and MIB picking up the can of condensed milk when they meet Dolores and that specific hats are key parts of the two character's costumes/identity.
I don't think any of the guests are human based on the terms of agreement on the Delos website.
 
If this show turns out to be another LOST I don't think I can take it. That was a show filled with endless speculation and the writers could not figure out how to end it because it became so ridiculous. I look back on it and think what a waste of time it was.

See even though the ending of Lost was so disappointing I still think it was worth the journey. I loved watching it and getting to know the characters.
I think this show is a lot more structured and intelligent than that show though.
 
Because the show is so huge they can't get too complicated they have to stick to certain rules, I suspect a fair amount about we're speculating about will be revealed by the end of season 1. Lost was still the traditional episodic TV show and it was really clear after a certain point that they were winging it.

Maybe the same will happen here who knows but with a Nolan at the helm this thing is probably going to fit together like a swiss watch.


In The Prestige swapped and double identities were the punchline at the end of the movie. I am thinking that this is going to factor in here too. I am also beginning to wonder if they are even on Earth. I know that sounds way out there, but Bernard's wife refers to the difficulties they had in communicating with each other due to his location. This is set in the future, so I am thinking that even on a remote island, satellite communications must have improved. The Board doesn't seem to have any issues communicating with Theresa so what is the problem?

Not on board with the MIB is William theory. We'll see how that works out. I think the MIB is just a guy with a lot of money who wants to get to the end of the game and/or wants to live in the game and control it. He has to be bored with the same scenarios over 30 years so why keep coming back unless he wants Westworld to be something different and/or the Hosts to be different.
 
^ That scene was pretty great. I also liked the contrast between the huge machine churning up dirt and the hosts toiling alongside it... Ford has such a god complex.

The one thing I don't get is how do they manage to have the time for their little tête-à-têtes with the hosts in between storylines. I suppose that it could be more of a virtual linkup since the android body is only a container for the artificial intelligence/possible consciousness and maybe there are multiple copies of the bodies. Though having copies of the bodies seems like something they would have mentioned. In general I don't really understand how this park runs... seems like it would be much more cost effective to let people run amok in a really, really real virtual simulation.

I noticed that blonde snake lady was shown in Ford's story (in the last episode) when he was telling about Bernard about the hosts going crazy after they experimented with their consciousness theory. She was sitting in a chair and had scratches all over her face and it was interesting the MIB said he hadn't noticed her before.





I don't think any of the guests are human based on the terms of agreement on the Delos website.
Right, that's interesting. I can't actually access that site (not in the right country) I can only see the Delos Incorporated security panel (which is the site I thought you were referring to) and the passwords I try don't open anything.

I was thinking that right now some of the people have to be human in order for there to be stakes in the story, I thought the idea of 'everyone is an android' is too close to 'it's all a dream'. That could change down the line, in some ways it wouldn't matter who was android or human, once consciousness is reached there's not much of a difference between the two besides bodies that can be continually repaired. If you were human or had originally started out as human and technology had reached consciousness there would presumably be ways of downloading the human consciousness into android bodies etc.



In The Prestige swapped and double identities were the punchline at the end of the movie. I am thinking that this is going to factor in here too. I am also beginning to wonder if they are even on Earth. I know that sounds way out there, but Bernard's wife refers to the difficulties they had in communicating with each other due to his location. This is set in the future, so I am thinking that even on a remote island, satellite communications must have improved. The Board doesn't seem to have any issues communicating with Theresa so what is the problem?

Not on board with the MIB is William theory. We'll see how that works out. I think the MIB is just a guy with a lot of money who wants to get to the end of the game and/or wants to live in the game and control it. He has to be bored with the same scenarios over 30 years so why keep coming back unless he wants Westworld to be something different and/or the Hosts to be different.
Yup you are correct, it was definitely disproved by this last episode, William is probably this season's rube and nothing more... I'm quite happy it was so explicit, it means that certain repetitions have thematic resonance rather than pointing towards certain specifics.


The not being on Earth thing may be a possibility, I initially thought it was too way out but the comment about the Orion carving not having 4 stars was certainly interesting.
 
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Ford was sounding like Hannibal Lechter lol! He scared Theresa and enjoyed it. So who was the representative? A guest we have seen? Is William marrying into a family on the Delos board?
 
^ The show is moving at a very specific pace setting up a lot of little things along the way so I assume it has to be someone we've seen, William's friend seems a good bet or possibly William himself... both are on a collision course with the MIB and/or Ford... It seems like the representative would need to intersect with those storylines.
 
^ The show is moving at a very specific pace setting up a lot of little things along the way so I assume it has to be someone we've seen, William's friend seems a good bet or possibly William himself... both are on a collision course with the MIB and/or Ford... It seems like the representative would need to intersect with those storylines.

I assume it's William. Logan called him his future brother in law and the way Logan has been banging the hosts, I assume he's not engaged to William's sister.
 
^ The show is moving at a very specific pace setting up a lot of little things along the way so I assume it has to be someone we've seen, William's friend seems a good bet or possibly William himself... both are on a collision course with the MIB and/or Ford... It seems like the representative would need to intersect with those storylines.
I think the show runners are playing with the viewers, i.e. inserting little thoughts into the media for the viewers to stew over like the MIB theory and two timelines. The public has become so ingrained with the idea that there is a hidden story and/or conspiracy with every series that is being aired and the show runners are playing with this to keep the interest up. Don't you notice that even though GoT is off, every few weeks something is dropped on the internet to keep up the hype.

How about those two guests who decided to be black hats and ride with Hector's gang? They recognized the MIB from the real world. Of course he shut them down pretty quick. Since they indicated that the MIB is a very wealthy man, perhaps he is the board member, but has a proxy fill his seat,and that is why the staff said he gets whatever he wants.

A bit confused as to what William and his future BIL did with the outlaw and Dolores as they left without them. Were they killed? What Easter Egg does future BIL think they have?

Hector would appear to know more about what is going on with the park than previously suspected. Maeve literally illustrated the fact that she has been aware of the clean up crew for some time.

I also wonder when the tete a tetes are taking place and the clean-ups. Do they drug the guests so they will sleep through the night when all of this is taking place? I am now thinking that they have multiples of all the hosts and just transfer consciousness to the replacement. *shades of Battlestar Galactica!* There is just too much damage on a daily basis for all these hosts to be repaired and replaced.

Since Bernard mentioned the maze to Dolores and the MIB is obsessed about finding it, I am guessing that their two stories will have to intersect at some point.

Regarding the stars. I don't think that they are on Earth and wherever they are, when they look up at the sky, they see 4 stars. They could be on another planet (actually looks like Mars) or a created one. I have had the feeling that wherever they are, they are under a controlled atmospheric dome. There is no weather to speak of that we have seen.
 
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I think the show runners are playing with the viewers, i.e. inserting little thoughts into the media for the viewers to stew over like the MIB theory and two timelines. The public has become so ingrained with the idea that there is a hidden story and/or conspiracy with every series that is being aired and the show runners are playing with this to keep the interest up. Don't you notice that even though GoT is off, every few weeks something is dropped on the internet to keep up the hype.

How about those two guests who decided to be black hats and ride with Hector's gang? They recognized the MIB from the real world. Of course he shut them down pretty quick. Since they indicated that the MIB is a very wealthy man, perhaps he is the board member, but has a proxy fill his seat,and that is why the staff said he gets whatever he wants.

A bit confused as to what William and his future BIL did with the outlaw and Dolores as they left without them. Were they killed? What Easter Egg does future BIL think they have?

Hector would appear to know more about what is going on with the park than previously suspected. Maeve literally illustrated the fact that she has been aware of the clean up crew for some time.

I also wonder when the tete a tetes are taking place and the clean-ups. Do they drug the guests so they will sleep through the night when all of this is taking place? I am now thinking that they have multiples of all the hosts and just transfer consciousness to the replacement. *shades of Battlestar Galactica!* There is just too much damage on a daily basis for all these hosts to be repaired and replaced.

Since Bernard mentioned the maze to Dolores and the MIB is obsessed about finding it, I am guessing that their two stories will have to intersect at some point.

Regarding the stars. I don't think that they are on Earth and wherever they are, when they look up at the sky, they see 4 stars. They could be on another planet (actually looks like Mars) or a created one. I have had the feeling that wherever they are, they are under a controlled atmospheric dome. There is no weather to speak of that we have seen.

Very interesting.

Yeah I agree that they're toying with us with the theories... though they don't need to do much to nudge the internet along. I think part of the theorizing/over theorizing is also arising from the fact that there are no significant personal relationship stakes that have emerged yet (except for maybe Dolores), I'm not finding myself wondering about personal stakes just yet... so there is nothing to distract me from wondering what it's all adding up to. Lost was a show that used the personal relationships to connect and distract the dots, sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. Plus there are lots of little irregularities that are popping up in each episode, the human brain is primed to think in a particular way... something the show is playing with and as you point out we've been primed by past shows and the media into thinking in a specific way.

Also the way relationships and storylines are slowly unfolding is quite unusual for a TV show I think, it feels like they've actually shown a lot (for a mystery box type of show) it's just that we don't have the important piece that puts it together. It's entirely possible that small insignificant characters or plot lines will turn out to be important and visa versa.

Hector is interesting, I like how they introduced him in the first/second episode and then reintroduced him and Blond snake lady.... whose name is Armistice, an interesting choice considering the meaning... and possibly a little matrix-y which I'm not sure is a good thing or bad thing. Hector is also a character in the Odyssey... though I don't know how that would fit into Westworld aside from the axed storyline that had Odyssey in the title.

They have been showing that there are constantly all sorts of little accidents in the park and I wouldn't be surprised if Maeve isn't the only host who's been having an awakening or awareness of the park operators for a while. I like how they showed the doll the native American drops, if the doll hadn't (purposefully) dropped she might have returned to her usual pattern and chocked the memories up to bad dreams and maybe that's happening and been happening for a lot of the history of the park. This would feed into the control/chaos theme.

Perhaps there are different levels of consciousness in the park... like how you might compare an insect to a dog to a human... so perhaps some of the hosts are already at insect level and some are at dog level and some are breaking through into human level and perhaps some have already gone beyond that... like way beyond that. Because that's one of the things that is predicted by scientists if AI would really take hold... in a real future reality it's probably not going to be like past sci-fi shows where you have androids living alongside humans in various degrees of happiness or unhappiness. The moment AI goes beyond human consciousness is the moment we're obsolete. The show has already mentioned this and I assume it'll continue to feature. The Mars or alternate planet theory is quite nice because I assume human of the future would be aware of possible repercussions and want to contain AI as much as possible... like on a different planet.

I feel like William is quite important to how Dolores and the MIB's storylines might collide. Memento had a noir element and Dolores could be a type of femme fatale to William or rather William might be Dolores's bait (because she is the more important character)... perhaps his naiveté or lack of knowledge of the big picture is the thing that tips something because he sees (possible to his detriment) Dolores as decent, pure or "real".
 
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