I can't decide between these two leathers. I want the leather that is the thickest and the heaviest. Different Hermes store leather experts have conflicting opinions. I've seen an ebene barenia picotin recently. The leather seemed very thin. (I wonder if this is the new norm) The natural barenia has not come into the store yet. The picotin in clemence is in rouge Hermes which is hard to find right now. They are holding it for me until tomorrow. I love both, but I will pick the one based on the thicker and heavier leather. Thank you for all your help in choosing!!!