kooba made in china?

Personally, my reaction to things that are expensive AND made in China is two pronged. First, China is NOT a friend to the U.S. For a long time they tinkered with their exchange rate, and they've made sweetheart-deals with companies/countries to lure them over there (like France, Germany and Russia did with Iraq). The Chinese government is also VERY lax on counterfeiting issues, and that impacts the entire world.

Second, yeah, the profit is obscene. Companies like Coach, Stone Mountain, Brahmin, Dooney & Bourke and others made a profit when their entire line was made in this country, and instead of investing here, they took the manufacturing overseas AND kept the prices high. If a bag is cheap, fine. If it cost $20 to make, and they're charging $500 for it, their profit margin is MUCH higher than any of the main luxury lines. As a consumer, I find that terribly disturbing. I also feel ripped off.

Forzieri sells Italian bags for less than these Chinese-made ones so there's definitely a profit in keeping the manufacturing in the U.S. or Europe. Gerard Darel is made in France, and the prices aren't obnoxious. Kooba USED to be made in Italy for HALF their current price, and now the price has more than doubled AFTER they go to China?

It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with quality, it's all about the absurd profits that never get passed on to the consumer. As the consumer, I don't have to play their game, and I'm shocked that more people don't think for so much as half a second as to where their money is going.

Can I ask why 'Made in China' has such a strong effect on some of you girls that you decide to boycott those brands? Personally I do not agree that 'Made in China' determines 'low quality'. Actually from my own experience many things that were made in China have very good quality and are manufactured nicely (I won't say ALL are good, but I won't say that for other manufaturing countries either - what I know is that those things that were made elsewhere, where the labor is more expensive, are still not guaranteed high quality). Is it mainly the lower labor cost that makes you uncomfortable? Is it like, you feel the brands make too much profit if they make their products in China and mark them high? Or, is it because you suspect that the labor there is ALL, or LARGELY, from blood factories? If so, is there enough statistics that can prove that ALL or MOST of the factories in China are using blood labor? I believe such factories exist; but it's unfair to assume that since one example exists all the things must be the same, right?

I do not mean offense to anyone. It's a question I've had for some time, which makes me wonder every time I see people show a strong anti-'Made in China' reaction. I know many fakes are made in China, but for legit designer products that are declared to be 'Made in China', I don't think they fall into the 'fake maker' category.
 
Personally, my reaction to things that are expensive AND made in China is two pronged. First, China is NOT a friend to the U.S. For a long time they tinkered with their exchange rate, and they've made sweetheart-deals with companies/countries to lure them over there (like France, Germany and Russia did with Iraq). The Chinese government is also VERY lax on counterfeiting issues, and that impacts the entire world.

I have no intention to bring this topic to the politics side, but I personally find a statement of "China is NOT a friend to the U.S." a little arbitrary. Is France a friend to the U.S.? Isn't a question like this very complicated and most likely you can never say for sure? And what defines the criteria of a 'friend' to a country? Anyway, this is beyond the discussion of our purses. Again, I do not mean any offense. I guess I just feel a little surprised to see some political statement in the middle of bag quality/price/made dicussions.
 
I echo Ammietwist's sentiments on the whole 'made in china' issue. It is disturbing to me as a consumer that companies are moving their manufacturing to china to lower production/labor costs, and instead of keeping the prices the same or maybe even lowering them, they jack it all the way up. Making the bags in China also dilutes the brands-- the supply of bags explode, and very good replicas appear on the market (I heard that sometimes people in authorized factories will sell the actual designs of the bags to counterfeiters for a quick buck). I almost bought a kooba bag on ebay a while back and the seller guaranteed authenticity. But when I bought the bag, and compared it to a real Kooba I already had, it was a little off. When I contacted the seller, she said basically the same thing-- that she bought it from a "manufacturer/supplier" and as far as she knew, the bag was real but couldn't be 100% sure of its origin. But she refunded me immediately so it seemed like there was some shadiness. I also think a lot of brands' quality have gone down since being made in china, such as banana republic and calvin klein (clothing). I have literally seen clothes I bought weeks ago fall apart at the seams, clothes for brands that I have never had problems with before they were made in china.

I don't think there's anything wrong with things being made in china per se. I buy lots of things made in china without hesitation. But when it comes to brands I identify with quality and luxury, I just don't see how they can justify the made in china tag with the lower quality and higher prices. That is why I will never buy kooba, coach, dooney & burke, botkier, burberry and whatever else is made in china for full price ever again (if at all).
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with things being made in china per se. I buy lots of things made in china without hesitation. But when it comes to brands I identify with quality and luxury, I just don't see how they can justify the made in china tag with the lower quality and higher prices. That is why I will never buy kooba, coach, dooney & burke, botkier, burberry and whatever else is made in china for full price ever again (if at all).

Amen Sassy. People in France, Italy, and the USA are losing their jobs because their jobs are being outsourced to China. They spend a good part of their lives learning how to manufacture these products in order to establish their careers, and the knowledge gets passed down to new generations of craftspeople.

I understand that it's too expensive to keep producing in these countries, and that in order for business to stay afloat, production would have to be outsourced. However, I feel the most for the people who are losing their jobs in these countries that have a long-standing tradition of craftsmanship and quality that established a particular brand in the first place. Now that some bag lines are outsourced, it loses that sense of tradition and history. That's why I prefer to buy "Made in France" or "Made in Italy" and "Made in USA". I'd like to think I'm doing my part to help their industry at home.
 
No, France isn't a friend to this country, and it's not complicated in the least given decades of political backstabbing. It's right there slapping you upside the head! Because of that, I rarely buy French goods on the primary market, and it's been that way, for my family, since 1986 when I canceled a trip to France. When I buy Hermes, Limoges china, Cartier jewelry or French fragrances, it's from the secondary market. The only thing I've purchased recently (last February) was an LV Babylone tote, and I'm now avoiding the company again for a wide variety of reasons.

I really don't see what's so strange about politics entering the handbag arena. Whether it's the treatment of animals used for furs and exotic skins, counterfeiting, child labor laws, countries that cheat with exchange rates and offer sweetheart deals...it's all related to handbags in the end--especially now with the pricepoints going nutty.

Like I said though, I really don't get why consumers don't care where their money goes, and why they'll gladly pay $600 for a purse that cost $20 to make and ship to the U.S. warehouse.

I have no intention to bring this topic to the politics side, but I personally find a statement of "China is NOT a friend to the U.S." a little arbitrary. Is France a friend to the U.S.? Isn't a question like this very complicated and most likely you can never say for sure? And what defines the criteria of a 'friend' to a country? Anyway, this is beyond the discussion of our purses. Again, I do not mean any offense. I guess I just feel a little surprised to see some political statement in the middle of bag quality/price/made dicussions.
 
Oh, it's not too expensive, it's just easier to manufacture overseas. People that manufacture in Europe and the U.S. are still making profits, but if you can get the consumer to shut their eyes as to the country of origin while still charging as much or more, the profits will be that much greater. Now where they'll go when wages increase over time is anyone's guess. As their middle class expands, companies prone to outsourcing will face higher costs. Karma will just bite them on the posterior.


I understand that it's too expensive to keep producing in these countries, and that in order for business to stay afloat, production would have to be outsourced. However, I feel the most for the people who are losing their jobs in these countries that have a long-standing tradition of craftsmanship and quality that established a particular brand in the first place. Now that some bag lines are outsourced, it loses that sense of tradition and history. That's why I prefer to buy "Made in France" or "Made in Italy" and "Made in USA". I'd like to think I'm doing my part to help their industry at home.
 
Many designers make their bags out of china now. Their facilities are slowly but surely surpassing european factories as well as their hand finishing techniques. Prada, Burberry, Kooba, and many many other companies manufacture out of Asia - that means nothing about the quality. The days where something which is made in asia immediately equivocating to defective/counterfeit goods are long gone. :smile: I've been an accessory product manager for many years and I have absolute ZERO tolerance for fakes -- not just for the faux pas reason but for the fact that it usually supports child labor/organized crime/shady business in general.
If you want to hear something more shocking, LV mfrs some of their monogrammed canvas in the US!
 
No, France isn't a friend to this country, and it's not complicated in the least given decades of political backstabbing. It's right there slapping you upside the head! Because of that, I rarely buy French goods on the primary market, and it's been that way, for my family, since 1986 when I canceled a trip to France. When I buy Hermes, Limoges china, Cartier jewelry or French fragrances, it's from the secondary market. The only thing I've purchased recently (last February) was an LV Babylone tote, and I'm now avoiding the company again for a wide variety of reasons.

I really don't see what's so strange about politics entering the handbag arena. Whether it's the treatment of animals used for furs and exotic skins, counterfeiting, child labor laws, countries that cheat with exchange rates and offer sweetheart deals...it's all related to handbags in the end--especially now with the pricepoints going nutty.

Like I said though, I really don't get why consumers don't care where their money goes, and why they'll gladly pay $600 for a purse that cost $20 to make and ship to the U.S. warehouse.

Before responding to your points I would like to request this discussion to go along a peaceful path as much as possible - people may have a lot of reasons to be frustrated, but let's not get too excited when it's actually not necessary, :smile:

I do not share the same point of view on this 'friend to a country' idea. Countries are not individuals. Countries go after profits and benefits, and friendship among countries is illusion. At different times a country may have different goals or benefits to go after, and other countries may or may not share the same goals; for the ones that share the same concerns or benefits, they cooperate, and call each other friend. However, this is not a binding long-term life-time relationship like marriage. (Well, even for marriages now there is the choice of divorce available, which shows that probably nothing is as solid any more.) When they do not share the same cause any more, or they find their causes become apart, even against the other's benefits, they break up. Every country has its own concerns and needs, and most of the time they can cooperate on some things but argue over other things. To put an expectation of unconditional friendship is unrealistic when talking about international politics.

According to what you said, France is not a friend of the U.S. either. May I dare to deduce that based on the same standard probably there are many other countries that do not totally agree with the benefits of the U.S. waiting to be screened as friends or non-friends? In that case, may we all keep a list of 'friend' countries and boycott all the others that do not qualify based on the same standard? I feel it might be much simpler if we just say, 'ok, Made in USA only now.' That may be the only safe and reliable solution to avoid running into the accident of benefiting the non-friends.

Another thing I find a little strange is that buying goods that are made by the 'non-friend' countries from secondary markets is acceptable. It does not make too much difference in my opinion - your money goes to the secondary market, and the secondary market paid the money to the original manufacturers, then where does your money go? It's not solid to say that in this way you are carefully managing your money so that it does not go to the non-friends.

As for the problems of animal treatment and labor protection, I feel that there might be some exaggeration in the actual ratio of factories doing that. I do not deny they happen; but how often and is there any improvement over time? My knowledge tells me that when capitalism first started blood factories were very common in Europe. The savageness goes away over time. For the countries that are still developing, it's true that we need to bring these problems into attention, but we also need to recognize it's not because those countries or those people are just greedy and evil. It's a long way to reach the modern civilization. Probably the U.S. and the Europe are ahead, but it does not mean that they didn't come from the same path. Personally I would rather give the developing countries more understanding and patience, and make some noise from time to time, but not prejudice, or even hatred.

Anyway, I respect people's choice of buying or not buying things from a certain country. My original question was purely a question to understand why some people prefer one way. Now I think I have some idea. Although I feel I am not convinced by those reasons and thus I won't change my own preference, I do not have the intention or motivation to ask other people to accept my idea. ;)
 
Oh, and one last point: if a bag costs $20 to make and sells at $600, does your $600 go to the manufacturing country, or mostly to the brand companies? It's straightforward to me. In that case I feel more like blaming the brand companies making so much 'inappropriate' profits than blaming the manufacturing countries for making them at such low cost.
 
I agree with all of these points made. Buyer beware. It depends on where you want or care where your money goes. The mark-up in clothes, bags, furniture, etc. is astronomical, and I personally want to be sure I'm getting some value for my money. I try only to buy bags that are on sale, and over $400 is something I need to think carefully about, because I don't think value is always what I'll get. Also, just because a celebrity has a certain bag doesn't mean I need to get it. AFter all, I am as far from a celeb as you can get, and they get those bags for free too! Why should my $$ go to the pockets of these designers?
 
Can I ask why 'Made in China' has such a strong effect on some of you girls that you decide to boycott those brands? Personally I do not agree that 'Made in China' determines 'low quality'.

I agree that Made in China does not means low quality... I am made in china and I am very good quality... hehe.. :yes: :yes:
I personally just think that if the handbags are made in china, it is almost 100% that they are paying low wages to Chinese factory workers and then turn around and put on a high markup on the bag and charge us way too much for it... Made in China is fine.. as long as they are fairly priced...
 
If you were in the business, you'd understand why many take their business to china instead of Italy or France..

Coach used to be manufactured in the US, it got too expensive,they moved it to China... and started producing even pricier bags. The handbag business is very lucrative... lots of money to be made, lots of ladies with money to spend. A woman is more likely to go out and splurge on a 2000 dollar handbag than tospend that same amount of money on an outfit.

Plus, Chinese manufacturing is cost effective... probably due to the fact that their labor laws aren't where they should be.

I do NOT agree with how some factories treat their workers over there, not one bit.


And as for the whole "Made in Italy" "Made in France" etc etc tags inside your high end bags. Unless you were there with the bag from the beginning until the sale floor, you don't know exactly where your bag was made... as someone said before, only a certain (and small) percentage has to be made in a certain country for the bag to be claimed as "Made in Italy, etc, etc"

Your Ferragamo might have Chinese made body, handles, lining, etc.... and an Italian sewn inside logo label.

Who knows!
 
And as for the whole "Made in Italy" "Made in France" etc etc tags inside your high end bags. Unless you were there with the bag from the beginning until the sale floor, you don't know exactly where your bag was made... as someone said before, only a certain (and small) percentage has to be made in a certain country for the bag to be claimed as "Made in Italy, etc, etc"

Your Ferragamo might have Chinese made body, handles, lining, etc.... and an Italian sewn inside logo label.

Who knows!

This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of :Push:...and the sad thing is, you're exactly correct.
 
Oh, and one last point: if a bag costs $20 to make and sells at $600, does your $600 go to the manufacturing country, or mostly to the brand companies? It's straightforward to me. In that case I feel more like blaming the brand companies making so much 'inappropriate' profits than blaming the manufacturing countries for making them at such low cost.

The retail price you pay ends up being something like this - Anywhere from 50-90% is the markup from the retailer, the higher that %, the closer to the average markup for a luxury bag. Duty on a leather bag from say Asia is ... i can't remember the exact figure but around 13% So essentially most of your money is going towards the company you are buying it from. If your concern is about supporting a particular economy, i personally don't feel that the origin of your bag should have that much to do with it (ie, the country of origin) what you're really supporting is the origin of the company you are buying the a bag from because they're really pocketing the majority of profits. And so this goes without saying... a $200 handbag quality can easily rival the quality of a luxury bag. I'm speaking in a generality and of course there are always upgraded little details which add cost but its reflected in the markup. IE... I'm a big fan of Chloe and they buy the same leather from the same tannery that I buy from for my mid-range retailer. We buy hardware from the same resources. The same um, often unsettlingly low quality hardware ;) However, this isn't meant to be cold or dampering towards the luxury handbag lovers - I like to think of it as buying ART and progressive taste. Who can put a price on that? I guess I could... like $2000? haha