Is a commitment "real" if you're not married?
- Thread starter Charles
- Start date
While I would like to trust my guy's intentions, it's really hard to do so considering how much I've been burned.
The truth is that marriage offers security. It's a declaration to the general public and your community of a couple's intentions. It's a declaration to each other of commitment in front of your community. It's a declaration of that trust.
And it takes work to put a good wedding together and really go for it. Once it's done, it's hard to back out of. You don't just do that unless you really mean it. So it's a signal of something really special in a relationship.
I've always dreamed of having a relationship that special.
I've felt close to many boyfriends, I've even lived with several. But I've never had that level of commitment.
The truth is that marriage offers security. It's a declaration to the general public and your community of a couple's intentions. It's a declaration to each other of commitment in front of your community. It's a declaration of that trust.
And it takes work to put a good wedding together and really go for it. Once it's done, it's hard to back out of. You don't just do that unless you really mean it. So it's a signal of something really special in a relationship.
I've always dreamed of having a relationship that special.
I've felt close to many boyfriends, I've even lived with several. But I've never had that level of commitment.
Hey Charles,
I lived with my husband for almost a decade before we got married. When we first started living together, we didn't have much in the way of assets. As time went on and we got older and more successful financially, things got more complicated because we started acquiring things together. My husband has two kids from a prior marriage and basically had we not gotten married, I would have had to fight in court to keep MY half of the assets if he suddenly died and we were not married. We were very committed to each other anyway, but our situation became complicated once we bought a home together and started investing our money. So in January of 2006 we got married and I can tell you that things legally became much easier after that. The other surprising thing is that our commitment to each other has actually become deeper since we became "official" spouses. We didn't think marriage would change the depth of our feelings for each other, but to be honest it really has. There is a deeper feeling of connection there now that was not there before and it's great.
We are in the process of buying a new home together and we've both remarked at how different it feels to be doing this now as opposed to when we bought our condo as boyfriend/girlfriend. We are having fun discussing projects and things we want to do and we are just really engaged in this whole process in a different way than before. Not that 'before' was bad, it was just different. My husband also wrote me a card on Valentine's Day thanking me for showing him what a real marriage was all about. He was soured after being married to a nutjob for 14 years and also seeing his parents go through a divorce. My parents were happily married for 40 years so maybe that has helped me in terms of how I handle my own relationship with him, I don't know.
What I am trying to say by all this rambling is that you should not underestimate the power and importance of a vow of marriage to another person. I personally would hate for you to miss out on the joy it can bring to your life.
I lived with my husband for almost a decade before we got married. When we first started living together, we didn't have much in the way of assets. As time went on and we got older and more successful financially, things got more complicated because we started acquiring things together. My husband has two kids from a prior marriage and basically had we not gotten married, I would have had to fight in court to keep MY half of the assets if he suddenly died and we were not married. We were very committed to each other anyway, but our situation became complicated once we bought a home together and started investing our money. So in January of 2006 we got married and I can tell you that things legally became much easier after that. The other surprising thing is that our commitment to each other has actually become deeper since we became "official" spouses. We didn't think marriage would change the depth of our feelings for each other, but to be honest it really has. There is a deeper feeling of connection there now that was not there before and it's great.
We are in the process of buying a new home together and we've both remarked at how different it feels to be doing this now as opposed to when we bought our condo as boyfriend/girlfriend. We are having fun discussing projects and things we want to do and we are just really engaged in this whole process in a different way than before. Not that 'before' was bad, it was just different. My husband also wrote me a card on Valentine's Day thanking me for showing him what a real marriage was all about. He was soured after being married to a nutjob for 14 years and also seeing his parents go through a divorce. My parents were happily married for 40 years so maybe that has helped me in terms of how I handle my own relationship with him, I don't know.
What I am trying to say by all this rambling is that you should not underestimate the power and importance of a vow of marriage to another person. I personally would hate for you to miss out on the joy it can bring to your life.
I do notice that some do not really bother about marriage and they find it meaningless cos it just means that they have signed a piece of paper. The everyday life together matters more to them whether or not the ring exists. I suppose there are more important factors to verify love.
As me and my beau get closer to this choice I am thinking about this a lot myself. Discussing my thoughts with many women is often difficult because they can't imagine not wanting to be married so I often keep it to myself. I was never that girl that dreamed of the wedding dress and day etc. As stated in the book Lies at the Altar...too many get more caught up in the event and excitement and fantasy of marriage and a wedding vs. the actual relationship.
As I talk with people there are a few things that I think really shape the differences in a desire to marry or not:
Religion and my view that it is best for kids to be raised by married parents are the only things that play a part in my desire to marry....more the latter really than the former. If I didn't want kids or couldn't have them anymore...I doubt I would get married and I'd be content with just a committed relationship. I grew up in a religious methodist episcopal family...my boyfriend's family is heavily Jehovah's Witness though he does not practice the faith. Neither of us go to church regularly....I go maybe twice a year and though he believes in God he feels most churchs are scams...I'm not crazy about the church environment either...the world is a church in my view...so to me it seems kind of hypocritical to get married in a church. His grandma would not likely step foot in a non-JW ceremony. So I can understand why people with different denominations just avoid a religious ceremony altogether. There is less drama. Neither of us really have tight close knit families either. I think people who have these great families have a greater desire to bring people together and celebrate.
Financially we are both from poor families so no one is financing the shing-dig event but us. I may think differently about it if I had wealthy parents funding the whole thing. We both agree there are better uses for the money than starting our lives out with debt (when financial problems are one of the top reasons for divorce) as we watch friends drop $20k to $50k on weddings. I think we just want to go on a trip...marry there and stay there for our "honeymoon"...come back and have a small party at the house for those closest to us ...not every random acquaintence.
All I really want at this point (2.5 years) is to live in the same household and to be jointly working toward goals that we want versus two different lives that come together on weekends. I would like to be engaged as I think it is a more formal commitment but I don't necessarily need anything but a simple band and the words (though we already discuss being married so it is not like I don't know he wants to be he just hasn't done the formal asking thing which also comes with major financial pressure to buy a phat rock on a social worker salary while trying to go to grad school)....and the words are more just a tradition thing so I am not even sure about that...since I already know his intentions without him going on one knee and spending several months pay on a ring. We both want kids. His mom never married and he doesn't know his father and my parents divorced when I was 12. As the stereotype is that in the black community there are more "baby daddys and mommas" than married parents, I think we both have a desire to not be that even though it is so commonplace...we want to have the Cosby Show nuclear family that neither of us had. I think also the fact that he does social work and works with so many troubled kids who did not grow up in 2 parent households (some not even a 1 parent household) affects his view. So having kids without being married...though common in our community is not our goal. We both have gone though life trying to be the opposite of every negative stereotype about our culture so that is a major factor even though I am sure we could be great parents w/o the marriage.
Regarding legal issues, being an attorney I know there are many things I can draft contractually that can provide similar rights to both of us that we could get within marriage...but there are also things that you just cannot contract around and can only get through marriage. While everyone is considering the positive benefits legally and financially from marriage, the attorney and former accountant in me is also very much aware of the negative legal and financial issues that come with marriage. It is not all about insurance payouts and getting money ...it is also about money that you can lose. When you are the main party with assets and a high income there is a lot to consider....and that is the case for more and more women today than ever before. In my situation, my beau needs the protections of marriage far more than I do. Most don't know that once married you are liable for any and all debt your spouse enters into DURING the marriage whether you knew about it or not. They can get credit that you do not know about run up hundreds of thousands of debt and you can divorce and they file bankruptcy and the creditors come after you for that money. Creditors do not care what the divorce settlement said about who was to pay what. Marrying someone gives them the legal ability to bankrupt you. Yes you should know what kind of person you are marrying beforehand...but how many times have we all heard about people doing things out of character and changing. And what do you mean I can no longer move money out of my 401k without my spouses written approval when they didn't put a dime in that account that I built up for years and they have little to no retirement money of their own? And don't get me on taxes...yes they fixed some of the marriage penalty but in many ways I am better off filing as a single person than I am being married whether I file jointly or separately. Either way it goes, if I marry I will pay higher taxes for the privilege of wedded bliss. Once you say "I Do" there are potentially negative financial and legal results...not just good ones. Even a pre-nup can't fix everything.
And of course there is the pressure of the societal norm and expectation that that is what you should do. It is like after you hit 2 years together you are barraged with questions about why you haven't yet (especially when many of your friends met and married within the first year together like ours have).
All that said we do plan to get married. Probably right before we are ready to drop a kid...prior to that I would be cool with just being engaged.
As I talk with people there are a few things that I think really shape the differences in a desire to marry or not:
- Religious backgrounds/practices
- The wealth or lack thereof of your parents
- The marriages or lack thereof of your parents
- How tight knit your families are or are they estranged
- Having children
- Societal norms/expectations
- Legal/Financial concerns
- Being in love with ceremony/tradition/dress or could care less
Religion and my view that it is best for kids to be raised by married parents are the only things that play a part in my desire to marry....more the latter really than the former. If I didn't want kids or couldn't have them anymore...I doubt I would get married and I'd be content with just a committed relationship. I grew up in a religious methodist episcopal family...my boyfriend's family is heavily Jehovah's Witness though he does not practice the faith. Neither of us go to church regularly....I go maybe twice a year and though he believes in God he feels most churchs are scams...I'm not crazy about the church environment either...the world is a church in my view...so to me it seems kind of hypocritical to get married in a church. His grandma would not likely step foot in a non-JW ceremony. So I can understand why people with different denominations just avoid a religious ceremony altogether. There is less drama. Neither of us really have tight close knit families either. I think people who have these great families have a greater desire to bring people together and celebrate.
Financially we are both from poor families so no one is financing the shing-dig event but us. I may think differently about it if I had wealthy parents funding the whole thing. We both agree there are better uses for the money than starting our lives out with debt (when financial problems are one of the top reasons for divorce) as we watch friends drop $20k to $50k on weddings. I think we just want to go on a trip...marry there and stay there for our "honeymoon"...come back and have a small party at the house for those closest to us ...not every random acquaintence.
All I really want at this point (2.5 years) is to live in the same household and to be jointly working toward goals that we want versus two different lives that come together on weekends. I would like to be engaged as I think it is a more formal commitment but I don't necessarily need anything but a simple band and the words (though we already discuss being married so it is not like I don't know he wants to be he just hasn't done the formal asking thing which also comes with major financial pressure to buy a phat rock on a social worker salary while trying to go to grad school)....and the words are more just a tradition thing so I am not even sure about that...since I already know his intentions without him going on one knee and spending several months pay on a ring. We both want kids. His mom never married and he doesn't know his father and my parents divorced when I was 12. As the stereotype is that in the black community there are more "baby daddys and mommas" than married parents, I think we both have a desire to not be that even though it is so commonplace...we want to have the Cosby Show nuclear family that neither of us had. I think also the fact that he does social work and works with so many troubled kids who did not grow up in 2 parent households (some not even a 1 parent household) affects his view. So having kids without being married...though common in our community is not our goal. We both have gone though life trying to be the opposite of every negative stereotype about our culture so that is a major factor even though I am sure we could be great parents w/o the marriage.
Regarding legal issues, being an attorney I know there are many things I can draft contractually that can provide similar rights to both of us that we could get within marriage...but there are also things that you just cannot contract around and can only get through marriage. While everyone is considering the positive benefits legally and financially from marriage, the attorney and former accountant in me is also very much aware of the negative legal and financial issues that come with marriage. It is not all about insurance payouts and getting money ...it is also about money that you can lose. When you are the main party with assets and a high income there is a lot to consider....and that is the case for more and more women today than ever before. In my situation, my beau needs the protections of marriage far more than I do. Most don't know that once married you are liable for any and all debt your spouse enters into DURING the marriage whether you knew about it or not. They can get credit that you do not know about run up hundreds of thousands of debt and you can divorce and they file bankruptcy and the creditors come after you for that money. Creditors do not care what the divorce settlement said about who was to pay what. Marrying someone gives them the legal ability to bankrupt you. Yes you should know what kind of person you are marrying beforehand...but how many times have we all heard about people doing things out of character and changing. And what do you mean I can no longer move money out of my 401k without my spouses written approval when they didn't put a dime in that account that I built up for years and they have little to no retirement money of their own? And don't get me on taxes...yes they fixed some of the marriage penalty but in many ways I am better off filing as a single person than I am being married whether I file jointly or separately. Either way it goes, if I marry I will pay higher taxes for the privilege of wedded bliss. Once you say "I Do" there are potentially negative financial and legal results...not just good ones. Even a pre-nup can't fix everything.
And of course there is the pressure of the societal norm and expectation that that is what you should do. It is like after you hit 2 years together you are barraged with questions about why you haven't yet (especially when many of your friends met and married within the first year together like ours have).
All that said we do plan to get married. Probably right before we are ready to drop a kid...prior to that I would be cool with just being engaged.
I know too many couples where one decides to leave the other even after 10 years, and the other is left with nothing. Really nothing. They may have paid half the mortgage for a decade but because the mortgage was in his name only he keeps the house and she's out 10 years of money. A friend of mine was left with no money and no car, since he always insisted on paying "because he made more." Forget it. I want the financial security & benefits of marriage.
blkladylaw you're not the only one. I agree totally, I dont really care about weddings or marriage, and would only get married if I were to have a child with my bf, and that's not going to happen for a LONG time. I often told this to my girlfriends and while they understand my thoughts on marriage, they don't share my view. My friends tell me that I'm just not with the right person and if I meet my "right" person, I'll want to get married. I dunno, I love my bf and been together for 4.5 years, and I can't imagine myself with anyone else.
Even as a child I never wanted to be a bride. I don't need to have a legally binding contract to be committed to someone. I'm working on trying to be more independent and not need to depend on my bf. I have seen many marriages fail with people around me. My neighbor's husband left her and their 3 kids after 20 years of marriage. Literally just left, he went to work one day and didn't come home, he called his kids a month later to tell them that he went to australia. Also the huge amount of married men that hit on my friends and I. If a man is gonna leave and cheat, he's gonna leave and cheat, with or without a legal marriage. My godmother's husband is extremely well off and he regularly has his mistresses go out to dinner with him and his wife and friends, he buys houses and etc. for his mistresses, my godmother can't do anything about it b/c she can't live on her own. And everyone knows, it's humiliating for her. This kind of stuff is so common, it's ridiculous. Maybe I'm just jaded. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes, it's just my opinion.
Even as a child I never wanted to be a bride. I don't need to have a legally binding contract to be committed to someone. I'm working on trying to be more independent and not need to depend on my bf. I have seen many marriages fail with people around me. My neighbor's husband left her and their 3 kids after 20 years of marriage. Literally just left, he went to work one day and didn't come home, he called his kids a month later to tell them that he went to australia. Also the huge amount of married men that hit on my friends and I. If a man is gonna leave and cheat, he's gonna leave and cheat, with or without a legal marriage. My godmother's husband is extremely well off and he regularly has his mistresses go out to dinner with him and his wife and friends, he buys houses and etc. for his mistresses, my godmother can't do anything about it b/c she can't live on her own. And everyone knows, it's humiliating for her. This kind of stuff is so common, it's ridiculous. Maybe I'm just jaded. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes, it's just my opinion.
Well, perhaps she should have insisted on putting her name on the deed and the title.
Yes, but if you're in a "committed" relationship, you assume the other person loves you enough not to do something as mean as that. Right there you've just admitted that you are not committed unless you've done something "lawful" about it, like a deed.
^^ I should clarify that I love my DH very much and don't think he would do that to me, and I certainly wouldn't to him, but these women never thought these men that they loved would do it to them, either.
my parents' friend was married and her husband didn't put her name on the deed. he was the one who cheated (for five years no less) and still managed to screw her over in the divorce.
and i really don't see how putting your name on the deed to a house is the same as going through a ceremony to get married. it's nothing to do with commitment, it's about ownership of the house. if both people are paying the mortgage of course both their names should be on the deed, why on earth wouldn't they be?
I've never cared enough about marriage to feel that it is 'the ultimate commitment.' I have been with my boyfriend for 7 years and we have lived together for nearly the same amount of time. I like living in sin!
Even as a child I was never one of those girls who talked about wanting to get married and what kind of dress I would have etc, it just never interested me and still doesn't.
I told my boyfriend how I felt about marriage when we first met and he was fine with it, even though he has said he would marry me if I would let him! I have never felt that our relationship needed a peice of paper to 'confirm' what we already know; that we love each other and want to be together for good. I do feel though that when we have children, I would like us to be married so that we all have the same surname. It will be our decision though and will be a small private affair. I certainly do not need to get married just to prove I love him or vice versa.
My mum and Dad are not married and they have been together since my mum was 13. She will be 50 next year and they are still going strong! xx
Even as a child I was never one of those girls who talked about wanting to get married and what kind of dress I would have etc, it just never interested me and still doesn't.
I told my boyfriend how I felt about marriage when we first met and he was fine with it, even though he has said he would marry me if I would let him! I have never felt that our relationship needed a peice of paper to 'confirm' what we already know; that we love each other and want to be together for good. I do feel though that when we have children, I would like us to be married so that we all have the same surname. It will be our decision though and will be a small private affair. I certainly do not need to get married just to prove I love him or vice versa.
My mum and Dad are not married and they have been together since my mum was 13. She will be 50 next year and they are still going strong! xx
my parents' friend was married and her husband didn't put her name on the deed. he was the one who cheated (for five years no less) and still managed to screw her over in the divorce.
and i really don't see how putting your name on the deed to a house is the same as going through a ceremony to get married. it's nothing to do with commitment, it's about ownership of the house. if both people are paying the mortgage of course both their names should be on the deed, why on earth wouldn't they be?
Well, for example, my Dh already had the town house when I met him. So there was no point in refinancing just to put my name on the deed. Anyway, it's just an example.
Personally Charles, I feel that if you love that person, you don't need a piece of paper to make the commitment real. For example, 50% of "legally" married couples get divorced. Thats a pretty darn high rate of divorce and these are people who have a marriage certificate! 
Someone mentioned that non legally married couples don't get the benefits (health etc.) of legally married couples. That is so true is way to many cases and I dislike that. This is an issue I feel VERY stongly about. I definately don't mean/want to offend anyone who is truely against, for ex. "partners" but not opposite sex. Each to his/her own. I beleive strongly in male/female marriage just the way I do about same sex partnerships/marriage.
So back to the topic (off my soapbox now
) I do think the commitment is real even if your not married. More power to ya'! 
***I feel I need to say this. Pls ladies/gents don't let this thread take a turn for the worst like another thread closely related did earlier. Its a matter of opinion and some people have strong opinions one way or another. If you reeeaaaaly have a super strong opinion or are offended by a comment someone posted, pm them b/c it is very hard sometimes to truely understand what a was truely intended to say. You may get clarity via pm as opposed to posting your comment about the offensive comment here for EVERYONE to see. Sometimes its just interpreted incorrectly. Most of us aren't offended easily (or either the ones that are don't post) but we do like to engage in topics like this. :kiss:
Someone mentioned that non legally married couples don't get the benefits (health etc.) of legally married couples. That is so true is way to many cases and I dislike that. This is an issue I feel VERY stongly about. I definately don't mean/want to offend anyone who is truely against, for ex. "partners" but not opposite sex. Each to his/her own. I beleive strongly in male/female marriage just the way I do about same sex partnerships/marriage. So back to the topic (off my soapbox now
) I do think the commitment is real even if your not married. More power to ya'! ***I feel I need to say this. Pls ladies/gents don't let this thread take a turn for the worst like another thread closely related did earlier. Its a matter of opinion and some people have strong opinions one way or another. If you reeeaaaaly have a super strong opinion or are offended by a comment someone posted, pm them b/c it is very hard sometimes to truely understand what a was truely intended to say. You may get clarity via pm as opposed to posting your comment about the offensive comment here for EVERYONE to see. Sometimes its just interpreted incorrectly. Most of us aren't offended easily (or either the ones that are don't post) but we do like to engage in topics like this. :kiss: