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How to find a perfect GIA diamond? Help needed


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Jul 1, 2013, 12:20am   #1
phoebe_0526's Avatar
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Dear Ladies,

I am hoping to find a perfect diamond as my engagement ring. I know 4C is very important, also the proportions.
Please help to share the knowledge on how to determine if the proportion is good? And what's the minimum clarity could be acceptable? I am hoping to find a 1 carat GIA diamind.
Is it the correct spec I should follow? anything else should be considered? Thanks so much.
depth 54%-57.5%
Table 60%-61%
Jul 1, 2013, 12:38am   #2
Gixxer's Avatar
Member
Originally Posted by phoebe_0526
Dear Ladies,

I am hoping to find a perfect diamond as my engagement ring. I know 4C is very important, also the proportions.
Please help to share the knowledge on how to determine if the proportion is good? And what's the minimum clarity could be acceptable? I am hoping to find a 1 carat GIA diamind.
Is it the correct spec I should follow? anything else should be considered? Thanks so much.
depth 54%-57.5%
Table 60%-61%
Hi Phoebe, this link, especially the last post by ame, is extremely helpful:

http://forum.purseblog.com/the-jewel...ad-221372.html

There are numerous posts on here but ultimately it is whether you like the diamond or not. There are many with the same specs but cannot capture whether you like what you're getting.

Best of luck
Jul 1, 2013, 12:43am   #3
phoebe_0526's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Gixxer
Hi Phoebe, this link, especially the last post by ame, is extremely helpful:

http://forum.purseblog.com/the-jewel...ad-221372.html

There are numerous posts on here but ultimately it is whether you like the diamond or not. There are many with the same specs but cannot capture whether you like what you're getting.

Best of luck
THANKS SO MUCH Gixxer!!!!
Jul 1, 2013, 1:35am   #4
k
Member
Dear Phoebe,
To find a perfect diamond, I think you need to define first what is perfect for you, which will also depend on what your priorities are, which may differ from mine and or others in this forum.

For example, for me:
1. My first priority was the price.
2. My second priority was the cut. Combination of crown & pavilion angles, etc.
3. Third priority was the combination of color and clarity. I didn't want to go lower than I, preferably F-H color, and I didn't want a clarity lower then VS.
4. The setting was my last priority as I thought and still think a well cut diamond stands out even in a very simple setting. So, I took a standard setting, cheaper therefore more bucks for the stone.

Once my priorities set, than I search the stone from reputable vendors. Not sure if I could mention vendors, but I purchased from Crafted by Infinity, Whiteflash and Good Old Gold and I'm super happy with them all. Moderator please remove the vendor names if it's against the forum policy.

How did I know my priorities (re. cut, color, HCA,Asset, Arrow, etc...) once the budget was fixed? I spent a lot of time, learning about the cut quality on the pricescope forum. There are plenty of resources there and I learned a lot lurking on various forum discussions.
For the color preference, I think you need to see and try it yourself comparing how different colors match your skin tone and please your visual preferences (I tried down to wellcut M color). This process seeing and comparing myself while I educating myself was really valuable for me (before I educated myself , I thought the perfect diamonds should be 3 ex GIA, F color maxi with preference D, and VVS clarity. See how much I changed)

I'm sorry if my post doesn't really answer your question. I hope it could help nonetheless.n
Jul 1, 2013, 3:03am   #5
phoebe_0526's Avatar
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Member
Dear Kimpossible,

Thanks SO MUCH for your inputs, it helps a lot, I am using http://www.ideal-scope.com/hca.asp to see which GIA diamond fire and sparkly the best. I think I need more learning and searching before I can decide, but I have some idea to start with now. I am on a tight budget of $10,000. My SO is surprised that a .70 ct and 1.0 ct diamond actually priced so different. and I am hoping he would understand it better after my lecture. LOL

I really don't know if I should go for 1.0+ diamond, because my finger is tiny, but I have heard 1.0 ct. diamond holds its value better, do you think that's correct?

For now, I think the proportion is the most important, and I want a color between D-H. although I am not too sure how much different would a G and H be, I may need to check them in person.

Thanks again for your inputs!!

Originally Posted by kimpossible
Dear Phoebe,
To find a perfect diamond, I think you need to define first what is perfect for you, which will also depend on what your priorities are, which may differ from mine and or others in this forum.

For example, for me:
1. My first priority was the price.
2. My second priority was the cut. Combination of crown & pavilion angles, etc.
3. Third priority was the combination of color and clarity. I didn't want to go lower than I, preferably F-H color, and I didn't want a clarity lower then VS.
4. The setting was my last priority as I thought and still think a well cut diamond stands out even in a very simple setting. So, I took a standard setting, cheaper therefore more bucks for the stone.

Once my priorities set, than I search the stone from reputable vendors. Not sure if I could mention vendors, but I purchased from Crafted by Infinity, Whiteflash and Good Old Gold and I'm super happy with them all. Moderator please remove the vendor names if it's against the forum policy.

How did I know my priorities (re. cut, color, HCA,Asset, Arrow, etc...) once the budget was fixed? I spent a lot of time, learning about the cut quality on the pricescope forum. There are plenty of resources there and I learned a lot lurking on various forum discussions.
For the color preference, I think you need to see and try it yourself comparing how different colors match your skin tone and please your visual preferences (I tried down to wellcut M color). This process seeing and comparing myself while I educating myself was really valuable for me (before I educated myself , I thought the perfect diamonds should be 3 ex GIA, F color maxi with preference D, and VVS clarity. See how much I changed)

I'm sorry if my post doesn't really answer your question. I hope it could help nonetheless.n
Jul 1, 2013, 10:19am   #6
k
Member
Dear Phoebe,

You're most welcome.

If the 10k budget is for the rock only, then you can easily get about 1 carat in G - VS color clarity combo. If like me you could go down to I-VS combo you could get 1.25 - to almost 1.3 carat signature diamonds from reputable vendors like Crafted by Infinity, Whiteflash ACA, Brian Gavin Signature, etc. And believe me, diamonds to girls are like TV to guys, bigger better (up to certain extent for me anyway).

I'am blessed not to have very sensitive eyes, I can't differentiate well cut G from H or even I. Some people could. I could see hint of brownish yellow on not so well cut H, I diamonds though.

As to whether 1 carat+ diamonds hold the value better, I'm not sure it's true everywhere but I know some local jewelers in Asia who would apply buy back policy for 1ct +, using rapaport as price index minus some fees (e.g -5%, 10%) while for smaller diamonds, they would buy back at initial price minus something between 25-30% discount. (This was true until 5 years ago, now I'm not sure as I moved around).

Goodluck with your research and have fun "shopping" around (I had so much fun trying erings at Tiffany, Cartier and such although, I didn't buy from them. The SA are usually eager to help you and let you try when you say looking for erings to give input to your fiance to be).

Cheers
Jul 10, 2013, 5:40pm   #7
ame's Avatar
ame
Member
Go try things on to get a feel for size. Visit a GIA or AGS jeweler. You want to see what you will like on your hand sizewise. Also see what you think of colors and clarities in person in those ranges.

Personally I think the sweet spot for me is around a G-H color and a VS1 clarity. White and Clear. I like Fluorescence a lot, but it's not for everyone.

Cheat sheet for cut, great set of numbers for Round Brilliants...

Fancies are harder to deal with so if you want those, we can discuss, but RB is the easiest way to judge cut quality.

Ask the sales person to limit the selection of round brilliant cut diamonds which they offer to me so that all of the diamonds are within the following range of proportions using a GIA or AGS report:
Total depth between 59 – 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 – 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none

When you're dealing with a table of 53-54, you want the depth to be in the 59-60 range, not the 61-62 range. I harp on the 55 because it's RIGHT in the middle of the range, and sometimes a 56. The middle of the range is PERFECT, and is always talked about as the perfect table number.

The angles mentioned in degrees are a range, obviously you're going to have interplay, so there's not a specific ratio there. You have to see what the numbers on each stone are. There really is a bigger range of angles than that but ideally those would be great to hit.

Girdle: Bruted isn't horrible, my current stone is bruted. I LIKE Faceted better, but bruted isn't a horrible thing.

If a Jeweler has an ASET or IdealScope all the better. If they don't know what that is, or bash internet vendors, pay attention to that, and note it, because my experience with that tells me they're a little too "old school" for my requirements and we will not work well together.

I have purchased successfully many times from Good Old Gold, I didn't have good experiences with Whiteflash but they have great diamonds. Also check out High Performance Diamonds, they sell Cut by Infinity--wow. Another one with great stones is Brian Gavin Diamonds.
Jul 15, 2013, 1:57am   #8
phoebe_0526's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
Originally Posted by ame
Go try things on to get a feel for size. Visit a GIA or AGS jeweler. You want to see what you will like on your hand sizewise. Also see what you think of colors and clarities in person in those ranges.

Personally I think the sweet spot for me is around a G-H color and a VS1 clarity. White and Clear. I like Fluorescence a lot, but it's not for everyone.

Cheat sheet for cut, great set of numbers for Round Brilliants...

Fancies are harder to deal with so if you want those, we can discuss, but RB is the easiest way to judge cut quality.

Ask the sales person to limit the selection of round brilliant cut diamonds which they offer to me so that all of the diamonds are within the following range of proportions using a GIA or AGS report:
Total depth between 59 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none

When you're dealing with a table of 53-54, you want the depth to be in the 59-60 range, not the 61-62 range. I harp on the 55 because it's RIGHT in the middle of the range, and sometimes a 56. The middle of the range is PERFECT, and is always talked about as the perfect table number.

The angles mentioned in degrees are a range, obviously you're going to have interplay, so there's not a specific ratio there. You have to see what the numbers on each stone are. There really is a bigger range of angles than that but ideally those would be great to hit.

Girdle: Bruted isn't horrible, my current stone is bruted. I LIKE Faceted better, but bruted isn't a horrible thing.

If a Jeweler has an ASET or IdealScope all the better. If they don't know what that is, or bash internet vendors, pay attention to that, and note it, because my experience with that tells me they're a little too "old school" for my requirements and we will not work well together.

I have purchased successfully many times from Good Old Gold, I didn't have good experiences with Whiteflash but they have great diamonds. Also check out High Performance Diamonds, they sell Cut by Infinity--wow. Another one with great stones is Brian Gavin Diamonds.
Hi
I went to the diamond store that sells GIA diamonds, I originally run the HCA testing on http://www.ideal-scope.com/hca.asp and found one diamond that fits my budget and the size seems fine to me. It is a 0.72 D VVS2 with HCA Grade 0.8. However, when I go to store, the sales lady show me one 0.80 E VS2, it has lower HCA score 3.5, however, they both sparkly and pretty. If putting them side by side, I can tell which one is brighter and which is one bigger, but i really could not tell the .72 one is actually sparkly than the other, I think they both look the same to me. Would you please educate me more about this? Should I trust HCA test score, or I should listen to the sales lady, who is keep saying at long as it is 3EX, they are the same...etc. She keep convince me to get a bigger diamond, and get a great color with SI clarity....is that correct?

Since my hand is tiny, .80 size looks like a 1 ct on me, so I think that size is fine, if our budget is not that high...Any inputs would be highly appreciated, i am copy the spec for those two diamonds.
5146761259
0.72
D
VVS2
60.2
58
EXCELLENT
EXCELLENT
EXCELLENT
NONE
H&A

151,632
2156024282
0.80
E
VS2
62.1
56
EXCELLENT
EXCELLENT
EXCELLENT
NONE
H&A

143,376
[IMG]file:///C:\DOCUME~1\PHOEBE~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

*TWD:USD= 30:1
Jul 15, 2013, 7:54am   #9
ame's Avatar
ame
Member
I just checked both reports and I say neither, because neither is particularly well cut based on the angles. If you liked one of them, that's fine, but on paper, I wouldn't pay my hard earned money for either one.

Are you in the US? Are you set on buying in-store or willing to buy from an online vendor where you can see photos, reports and ASET/Ideal Scope images?

Here's the rub with the HCA numbers...you cannot put all your stock in those. They're a weeding out tool. That first one with the .8? That table is WAY too big for that depth. When I pulled the report the crown angle and the pavilion angle don't "go" and you won't get good light return at all. It's not a great stone on paper, despite the HCA and despite the so-called triple excellent "grade" from GIA. Your eyes however might love it.
Jul 15, 2013, 11:35am   #10
phoebe_0526's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
Originally Posted by ame
I just checked both reports and I say neither, because neither is particularly well cut based on the angles. If you liked one of them, that's fine, but on paper, I wouldn't pay my hard earned money for either one.

Are you in the US? Are you set on buying in-store or willing to buy from an online vendor where you can see photos, reports and ASET/Ideal Scope images?

Here's the rub with the HCA numbers...you cannot put all your stock in those. They're a weeding out tool. That first one with the .8? That table is WAY too big for that depth. When I pulled the report the crown angle and the pavilion angle don't "go" and you won't get good light return at all. It's not a great stone on paper, despite the HCA and despite the so-called triple excellent "grade" from GIA. Your eyes however might love it.
Thanks again Ame. I am now in Taiwan, so I would prefer to go to store and pick up the stone. We have 3 GIA diamonds jeweler in here, they listed the diamond on their website and we can also go to store to see the actual diamond. Based on the information shared by another pfer, i thought the .72 is a good one....Yes, it get HCA 0.8 4EX. so i shouldnt use that website for reference, right?
Any tips to get an ideal one? I did bring the proportion u mentioned also cross check the HCA calculator... I will keep looking. Thanks!!
Jul 15, 2013, 12:26pm   #11
ame's Avatar
ame
Member
If you LOVED that stone in person, great, if the numbers are not super important to you, but the .8 HCA score is deceptive since the angles do not indicate it's a well cut stone. Also: just because the report says something about it being "EX" doesn't mean it's really going to be well cut. GIA has very wide margins for their cut standards. If you can find an AGS jeweler that would be good too.

The HCA will help you weed things out, yes, but it doesn't have to be the main decider. Anything under 2 should be a decent performer but there are sometimes duds in that range.

If you want ideal on paper, stick to the following, don't veer outside of it, and see what comes back. Don't be afraid of a VG on the report if it falls in this range.
Total depth between 59 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none
Jul 16, 2013, 5:34am   #12
phoebe_0526's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
THANKS SO MUCH Ame!!! It is very helpful. I will keep looking for a good diamond, thanks!

Originally Posted by ame
If you LOVED that stone in person, great, if the numbers are not super important to you, but the .8 HCA score is deceptive since the angles do not indicate it's a well cut stone. Also: just because the report says something about it being "EX" doesn't mean it's really going to be well cut. GIA has very wide margins for their cut standards. If you can find an AGS jeweler that would be good too.

The HCA will help you weed things out, yes, but it doesn't have to be the main decider. Anything under 2 should be a decent performer but there are sometimes duds in that range.

If you want ideal on paper, stick to the following, don't veer outside of it, and see what comes back. Don't be afraid of a VG on the report if it falls in this range.
Total depth between 59 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none
Jul 16, 2013, 1:09pm   #13
Sappho's Avatar
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99
Jul 16, 2013, 11:06pm   #14
phoebe_0526's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
I found it is not easy to find a diamond with the following requirement. :(

Crown angle between 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Jul 17, 2013, 8:39am   #15
ame's Avatar
ame
Member
Nope it's not. But they exist.
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