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Using Retinol Products w/Vitamin C Products??

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Jun 3, 2009, 11:19pm   #1
s
Thread Starter
swan1
Member
I've read that you are not supposed to use a product that contains Vitamin C while using a product that contains retinol. Does anyone have more info about this? Thanks!
Jun 4, 2009, 7:18pm   #2
lauriebell's Avatar
lauriebell
Party socks
Not true. If anything you should definitely use a C Serum when using a product containing retinol as the retinol will make you more sensitive to the sun. C Serum increases the efficacy of sunscreen. It's benzoyl peroxide that you won't want to apply at the same time as a product with retinol as they basically negate each other and end up doing nothing.

Some additional reading...
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=83708

Quote:
In conclusion, our results show that repeated topical application of a preparation containing both retinol and vitamin C is able to reverse, at least in part, skin changes induced by both chronologic aging and photoaging.
Jun 4, 2009, 7:42pm   #3
s
Thread Starter
swan1
Member
Originally Posted by lauriebell
Not true. If anything you should definitely use a C Serum when using a product containing retinol as the retinol will make you more sensitive to the sun. C Serum increases the efficacy of sunscreen. It's benzoyl peroxide that you won't want to apply at the same time as a product with retinol as they basically negate each other and end up doing nothing.

Some additional reading...
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=83708
Such an interesting article! Thank you. Is there a particular product––or product combo––you recommend for the retinol and C? I used Osmotics for years, but many of my faves have been discontinued. I tried Pevonia Botanica Timeless for a while––w/the C concentrate. And now, I've just started using some Natura Bisse products; however, the NB retinol serum is very high in alcohol content, and my skin does not do well w/alcohol. Thanks again for your time and knowledge!
Jun 4, 2009, 11:30pm   #4
k
kbzyah
Member
I've been using DermaDoctor's Poetry in Lotion (contains retinol) and I use MD Skincare's Hydra Pure Vitamin C Serum and I'm very pleased with the results. I've also used Philosophy's Help Me (retinol) & had no problems continuing use of the Vita-C or Antioxidant serums from MD Skincare. I have very sensitive skin so it's a huge relief to have these products work so well together for me (happy sigh)

Swan1
What did you think about the Pevonia Botanica, I've eyed that brand a few times...
Jun 5, 2009, 12:05am   #5
s
Thread Starter
swan1
Member
Originally Posted by kbzyah
I've been using DermaDoctor's Poetry in Lotion (contains retinol) and I use MD Skincare's Hydra Pure Vitamin C Serum and I'm very pleased with the results. I've also used Philosophy's Help Me (retinol) & had no problems continuing use of the Vita-C or Antioxidant serums from MD Skincare. I have very sensitive skin so it's a huge relief to have these products work so well together for me (happy sigh)

Swan1
What did you think about the Pevonia Botanica, I've eyed that brand a few times...
Thanks for sending along details about these products. I'll check them out. Know what you mean about the relief of finding products that work for sensitive skin!

I've tried these products from Pevonia: Timeless Cream, Timeless Lotion/Toner, Enzo-Spherides Peeling Cream, and C Complex. I have sensitive dry skin and found no irritation w/any of the products, though the Timeless products have a slightly unpleasant odor. I really like the ingredients, and I like the fact that there are no parabens––and these products do not contain alcohol. (You can read ingredients of each item on skinstore.com.) Including comments below regarding individual products.

• Did not like the Timeless Lotion (toner). It was nothing special, and I prefer a less lotion-like toner. I use a La Prairie toner (Cellular Refining Lotion).

• Loved the Pevonia Enzo-Spherides Peeling Cream. I had read positive reviews about this product on makeupalley.com. It is outstanding!

• Except for the odd fragrance, I really did like the Timeless Cream. I thought I could see a difference in the texture of my skin, but the fam didn't seem to notice.

• I like the Vitamin C Complex (Ligne Soin O2 Optimal). This is the ingredient list: Water (Aqua), Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate (Vit. C), Lecithin, Tocopherol (Oxyzomes), Hyaluronic Acid, Glycerin, Carbomer, Corylus Avellana (Hazel Nut) Oil, Chitosan Glycol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Hexylene Glycol, Sodium Citrate.

Just to share what I heard when I was researching Pevonia Botanica: When I spoke to estheticians, I heard several times that the Pevonia line is not sufficiently "active." Have also heard that the Pevonia Timeless products, the most expensive flagship products, only approach the entry level/least expensive items in many other lines. I'm not truly certain what the "active" ingredients would be, but the Timeless products contain peptides, marine items, retinol, and other products I consider to be outstanding. I am considering bringing the Timeless Cream back into my regimen. I like the Natura Bisse products I'm using. Really see a difference. But the NB products are not sufficiently hydrating. Hope some of this information will be helpful. Would be interested to know if you try Pevonia, and if so, what your impressions are.
Last edited Jun 5, 2009 at 12:12am.
Jun 5, 2009, 2:11am   #6
CEC.LV4eva's Avatar
CEC.LV4eva
Bal_RO_Céline
Originally Posted by lauriebell
Not true. If anything you should definitely use a C Serum when using a product containing retinol as the retinol will make you more sensitive to the sun. C Serum increases the efficacy of sunscreen. It's benzoyl peroxide that you won't want to apply at the same time as a product with retinol as they basically negate each other and end up doing nothing.

Some additional reading...
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=83708
I agree.

You do not use retinols or Vit C products together with AHAs and BHAs.... maybe this is what you were thinking?
Jun 5, 2009, 8:09am   #7
Jenna51580's Avatar
Jenna51580
Member
I really like La Roche Posay Active C and I use Retina A as well. However I use less Retina A in the summer months since the sun is very strong in Greece.
Jun 5, 2009, 10:18am   #8
s
Thread Starter
swan1
Member
What about products containing copper and Vitamin C together?
Jun 5, 2009, 2:20pm   #9
CEC.LV4eva's Avatar
CEC.LV4eva
Bal_RO_Céline
^I can't answer your q, but I've never believed in the use of copper in skincare products....
Honestly, it's not going to help you form collagen or elastin, there's no way copper is going to penetrate the skin to do so, it'll just cause irritation imo, unless it's in the nano size.... Then you might as well buy La Prairie's nano-platinum cream or Chantecaille's nano-gold cream.
Jun 5, 2009, 8:47pm   #10
lauriebell's Avatar
lauriebell
Party socks
Originally Posted by swan1
Such an interesting article! Thank you. Is there a particular product––or product combo––you recommend for the retinol and C? I used Osmotics for years, but many of my faves have been discontinued. I tried Pevonia Botanica Timeless for a while––w/the C concentrate. And now, I've just started using some Natura Bisse products; however, the NB retinol serum is very high in alcohol content, and my skin does not do well w/alcohol. Thanks again for your time and knowledge!
Swan, I use SkinMedica's C Serum in conjunction with a retinol product (which I have by prescription, so that might not be much help for you). I have been using retinol for a couple years now and I love it - it's my #1 beauty must have (aside from a clarisonic and sunscreen).

Here is some reading that might be useful for you :)

C Serum
http://makeupalley.com/user/notepad/StAmourOwl

Retinoids
http://makeupalley.com/account/sn.asp?username=tetrakis
http://www.makeupalley.com/user/notepad/retinoids

Hopefully those articles are helpful for you. I would also advise a BHA or AHA (Benzoyl Peroxide is neither of these as it is a disinfectant) in the morning (or at night too, if your skin can tolerate it) to help slough off dead skin/cells and clean out your pores.

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/skin-car...xfoliants.aspx

Quote:
What retinoids, AHA, and BHA products have in common is that once you stop using them, your skin will revert to the way it was before. These products will not produce permanent change. The smooth exterior lasts only as long as you use them. But used together long-term, they are a formidable weapon in the battle against wrinkles and blemishes.
Info on BHA/AHA, retinoids, BP, etc. - http://www.skinmedics.ca/Basic.htm

BP kills bacteria but does not clean out your pores in the same manner that a BHA or AHA would. It also causes some oxidation which has been proven to age your skin (though that doesn't stop me from dabbing a little on in a pinch)

http://www.bion-research.com/acne_&_premature_aging.htm
http://www.smartskincare.com/conditi...kin-aging.html

Sorry for the long post/response!
Jun 10, 2009, 11:32am   #11
s
Thread Starter
swan1
Member
CEC, Jenna, and Laurie Bell, thank you so much for your responses. Laurie Bell, I truly appreciate the links you sent. Am a big believer in research, and this information was so helpful! Thanks again!
Jun 10, 2009, 12:01pm   #12
roxys's Avatar
roxys
Member
Do you guys breakout and get itchy when you use retinol?
Jun 10, 2009, 12:11pm   #13
s
Thread Starter
swan1
Member
Originally Posted by roxys
Do you guys breakout and get itchy when you use retinol?
Haven't had these problems, though I do generally feel dry when using retinol products. (Not certain if this is actually a sense of tightness that I'm interpreting as dry.) You might want to check the other ingredients in the product(s) you're using. You might be allergic to something else in the product. Or of course, you could be allergic to the retinol.
Jun 10, 2009, 12:29pm   #14
roxys's Avatar
roxys
Member
^^I was using Retin A mixed with Obagi Blender...However I do have very sensitive skin, and obagi is also known for peeling ETC. I also feel like I broke out more! I've used both of them before and it's cleared up my face. This time though I just feel like it's itching alot more, and started peeling alot faster.
Jun 10, 2009, 4:16pm   #15
lauriebell's Avatar
lauriebell
Party socks
No problem, swan. I went through some issues with my skin and battled with it... research and trial/error finally got my skin to behave. Good luck!

Roxy - Your skin will be dry (itchy) and you may experience some purging (breaking out). You may want to slowly introduce your skin to Retinol by having 1 night one, 1 night off (or 1 night on, 2 nights off if your skin is more sensitive). If that doesn't help, you may need to do a short-contact therapy (put it on, let it soak up then rinse off) or buffer your skin with a moisturizer, etc. I also *think* I went through an initial purging when I started using it but that was a couple years ago, so I don't exactly remember. The important thing to remember is to not give up and not get discouraged the first few months when/if you see your skin get worse. If it still isn't helping after a few months, then it might be time to change what you're using.
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