you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION

shoppingisme · Dec 21st, 2007, 05:00 PM

is a woman obligated to inform a man when she becomes impregnated?
if so, why?
say she has a one night stand with a man, and has no intention of having a child, is she still obligated?

should all men be financially obligated to support a woman who becomes pregant with an unwanted child -- say he wants her to abort and she does not; should he still have to pay?

should the father be able to demand that a woman carry a child to term so that he can care for it -- say he wants to keep the child and the mother does not. should he have a legal right to ask for her body to be "used" in such a way if her desire is to not give birth?

if she does not want to be a mother, a woman can end the pregnancy, with or without his knowledge/agreement. if she wants to have the child, a woman can force child support. a woman also can have a baby and not tell the father. (however all of the these obvious facts lie in the fact that the woman's body is the host for conception and the vessel of birth).

how do you feel about the new bill submitted (to yet be passed) in OHIO where a woman needs the father's PERMISSION to have the procedure done?

[As written, the bill would ban women from seeking an abortion without written consent from the father of the fetus. In cases where the identity of the father is unknown, women would be required to submit a list of possible fathers. The physician would be forced to conduct a paternity test from the provided list and then seek paternal permission to abort. Claiming to not know the father's identity is not a viable excuse, according to the proposed legislation. Simply put: no father means no abortion.

With the proposal, men would be guaranteed that voice under penalty of law. First time violators would by tried for abortion fraud, a first degree misdemeanor. The same would be the case for men who falsely claim to be fathers and for medical workers who knowingly perform an abortion without paternal consent.

In addition, women would be required to present a police report in order to prove a pregnancy is the result of rape or incest."]

what are your opinions?

mojo riley · Dec 21st, 2007, 05:28 PM

I'm so utterly appalled and sickened by this I don't even know where to begin. I need to collect my thoughts on this one.

For now, I will say two things:

1) The nutcase far-right in this country has been emboldened by the new makeup of the Supreme Court, and the damage done by the Bush administration will last for a long, long time via the decisions that the present court will hand down. That is how we end up with sick bills like the one proposed here. I for one have no intention of sticking around this country long enought to find out just how far these wackos are going to go- so I'm working on citizenship to an EU nation.

2) For any of you ladies who care about protecting a woman's right to choose, I strongly suggest that you get on the NARAL email list. They will send updates and petitions to you, and all you need to do is hit "send" to deliver it to your representatives.

wordpast · Dec 21st, 2007, 05:42 PM

I uh... don't know how long this thread is going to last.

Roo · Dec 21st, 2007, 05:49 PM

Hi, I've tried to find a link to this bill online and could not. Can you please cite the source? Is this an old bill that didn't pass?

Roo · Dec 21st, 2007, 05:53 PM

Ah, found it, here it is:

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/b...?ID=127_HB_287

Speedy · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:32 PM

I hope it doesn't pass. I'm one of the original women's libbers and something like this takes away a woman's right to say what happens to her body. What if she was raped? What if she's in an abusive relationship? What if SHE just flat out doesn't want children?

When I was 26, I decided I didn't want anymore kids. I'd had two, and at the rate I was going, I was having a baby every 10 years... my then-husband was military, so I was to have the tubal ligation in a military hospital. I found out I had to get HIS permission for the ligation. I had a fit, and they changed that law shortly after.

I'm sorry, but if this law passes, they might as well take away our rights to vote, to drive, to obtain credit on our own... because that's going to be just the begininng.

Glamorous_girl · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:36 PM

Not sure how long this thread will last.
I would have a huge issue with it. For me it's not so much that I don't want to have children it's that I don't want to give birth. I'm one of those people who has a severe fear of giving birth. So I think being forced to do something to your body like that that you don't want is messed up. I'm really not usually very feministic at all, but i feel like Men don't have to carry the baby for 9 months and give birth therefore they should not have final say. Unless some major financial compensation is involved.

Would they always be doing a paternity test? Would it be possible to have someone pose as the father? If so I could smell a whole new profession...women paying men to claim to be the father.

To be honest, In this day and age I would be surprised if something like that passed.

Roo · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:40 PM

It does not look like the bill is going anywhere. Many bills about moral issues often don't, so it's probably futile to even debate it. IMO this is pandering at it's worst. Most of the time the politicians who write bills (and that goes for both parties) don't care much about the real issues, it's about making it look that way to their constituents.

heartnaspade · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:49 PM

I hope this thread stays open, as long as people can express their opinions in a respectful manner.

I personally think it's appalling that this bill is even being proposed. It's basically putting the entire decision in the hands of the man, since if he says "no" the abortion, she will be forced to carry to term. I am a firm believer that children should only be brought into this world when they are wanted and can be provided for - they should NOT be viewed as a "consequence" or "punishment" for a mistake.

I also fear that this bill would allow men to further trap women who are in abusive relationships. Many people would be surprised to hear that there are situations out there where men have poked holes in a condom or tampered with a woman's birth control in the hopes that she would get pregnant. The same goes for women too, of course, but wouldn't that be so much scarier if you were then forced to carry that man's child?

Glamorous_girl · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartnaspade

I also fear that this bill would allow men to further trap women who are in abusive relationships. Many people would be surprised to hear that there are situations out there where men have poked holes in a condom or tampered with a woman's birth control in the hopes that she would get pregnant. The same goes for women too, of course, but wouldn't that be so much scarier if you were then forced to carry that man's child?

I have heard of this happening ALOT. With both men and women.

devoted · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:54 PM

I don't agree with the bill at all, but this question stood out for me

"should all men be financially obligated to support a woman who becomes pregant with an unwanted child -- say he wants her to abort and she does not; should he still have to pay?"

if it's 100% the woman's decision to have an abortion, then it's 100% her decision to keep a baby and raise it...hope no one kills me for believing that way, I don't think abortions will increase because of this but maybe unwanted pregnancies may decrease.

I really don't want to debate this so don't attack me

Roo · Dec 21st, 2007, 06:55 PM

^^

You have a very valid point. (I think) Its funny how there is a double standard there.

caxe · Dec 21st, 2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glamorous_girl

Would they always be doing a paternity test? Would it be possible to have someone pose as the father? If so I could smell a whole new profession...women paying men to claim to be the father.

And I bet plenty of men would jump on that opportunity, although I don't know how legal it would be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartnaspade

I also fear that this bill would allow men to further trap women who are in abusive relationships. Many people would be surprised to hear that there are situations out there where men have poked holes in a condom or tampered with a woman's birth control in the hopes that she would get pregnant.

It doesn't surprised me. I don't know why a man would want kids, but I've heard of men actually doing stuff like this to get women pregnant. It's all so trifling and confused. One of my reasons for not wanting kids is because I DO see it as a trap, so it would be unfortunate for any woman to be trapped without even consenting to it.

shoppingisme · Dec 21st, 2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo

^^

You have a very valid point. (I think) Its funny how there is a double standard there.

i completely agree.

however, i'm also a woman who feels that if ANY woman (not child) becomes pregnant (single, married, whomever), she should not feel her life ends financially if her husband/baby daddy leaves/dies - e.g. departs in someway that cuts off his financial contribution.
(i know some married women who cannot tell you how much "they" have in the bank! - because it's all in his name

)

it's kind of f'd up when the ONLY reason a woman aborts is because "he didn't want to take care of (pay for) the kid." wtf? as if the man has total 100% financial responsibility; as if a man is by defualt now financially responsible - wholly.

if you want the kid and he does not, YOU should be able to pay for it and not force the "father" to do it.

okay, back to the subject...

oo0ehxtahcee0oo · Dec 21st, 2007, 09:05 PM

it takes two to tango.. and if you dont wanna tango, then wrap it up or better yet, dont do it! mistakes do happen.

so i believe both partners should be finacailly responsible.

Dec 21st, 2007, 05:00 PM	#1
shoppingisme Member	you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION is a woman obligated to inform a man when she becomes impregnated? if so, why? say she has a one night stand with a man, and has no intention of having a child, is she still obligated? should all men be financially obligated to support a woman who becomes pregant with an unwanted child -- say he wants her to abort and she does not; should he still have to pay? should the father be able to demand that a woman carry a child to term so that he can care for it -- say he wants to keep the child and the mother does not. should he have a legal right to ask for her body to be "used" in such a way if her desire is to not give birth? if she does not want to be a mother, a woman can end the pregnancy, with or without his knowledge/agreement. if she wants to have the child, a woman can force child support. a woman also can have a baby and not tell the father. (however all of the these obvious facts lie in the fact that the woman's body is the host for conception and the vessel of birth). how do you feel about the new bill submitted (to yet be passed) in OHIO where a woman needs the father's PERMISSION to have the procedure done? [As written, the bill would ban women from seeking an abortion without written consent from the father of the fetus. In cases where the identity of the father is unknown, women would be required to submit a list of possible fathers. The physician would be forced to conduct a paternity test from the provided list and then seek paternal permission to abort. Claiming to not know the father's identity is not a viable excuse, according to the proposed legislation. Simply put: no father means no abortion. With the proposal, men would be guaranteed that voice under penalty of law. First time violators would by tried for abortion fraud, a first degree misdemeanor. The same would be the case for men who falsely claim to be fathers and for medical workers who knowingly perform an abortion without paternal consent. In addition, women would be required to present a police report in order to prove a pregnancy is the result of rape or incest."] what are your opinions?

Dec 21st, 2007, 05:28 PM	#2
mojo riley Member	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION I'm so utterly appalled and sickened by this I don't even know where to begin. I need to collect my thoughts on this one. For now, I will say two things: 1) The nutcase far-right in this country has been emboldened by the new makeup of the Supreme Court, and the damage done by the Bush administration will last for a long, long time via the decisions that the present court will hand down. That is how we end up with sick bills like the one proposed here. I for one have no intention of sticking around this country long enought to find out just how far these wackos are going to go- so I'm working on citizenship to an EU nation. 2) For any of you ladies who care about protecting a woman's right to choose, I strongly suggest that you get on the NARAL email list. They will send updates and petitions to you, and all you need to do is hit "send" to deliver it to your representatives.

Dec 21st, 2007, 05:42 PM	#3
wordpast Member Location: Never Never Land	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION I uh... don't know how long this thread is going to last. __________________

Dec 21st, 2007, 05:49 PM	#4
Roo Up to the Minute Mod Location: Rue Roo	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION Hi, I've tried to find a link to this bill online and could not. Can you please cite the source? Is this an old bill that didn't pass? __________________ " We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poorhouse in an automobile." -- WILL ROGERS

Dec 21st, 2007, 05:53 PM	#5
Roo Up to the Minute Mod Location: Rue Roo	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION Ah, found it, here it is: http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/b...?ID=127_HB_287 __________________ " We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poorhouse in an automobile." -- WILL ROGERS

Dec 21st, 2007, 06:32 PM	#6
Speedy Sofa King Banned Location: N. California	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION I hope it doesn't pass. I'm one of the original women's libbers and something like this takes away a woman's right to say what happens to her body. What if she was raped? What if she's in an abusive relationship? What if SHE just flat out doesn't want children? When I was 26, I decided I didn't want anymore kids. I'd had two, and at the rate I was going, I was having a baby every 10 years... my then-husband was military, so I was to have the tubal ligation in a military hospital. I found out I had to get HIS permission for the ligation. I had a fit, and they changed that law shortly after. I'm sorry, but if this law passes, they might as well take away our rights to vote, to drive, to obtain credit on our own... because that's going to be just the begininng.

Dec 21st, 2007, 06:36 PM	#7
Glamorous_girl LVOE Location: Tokyo, Japan & Hanover, PA	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION Not sure how long this thread will last. I would have a huge issue with it. For me it's not so much that I don't want to have children it's that I don't want to give birth. I'm one of those people who has a severe fear of giving birth. So I think being forced to do something to your body like that that you don't want is messed up. I'm really not usually very feministic at all, but i feel like Men don't have to carry the baby for 9 months and give birth therefore they should not have final say. Unless some major financial compensation is involved. Would they always be doing a paternity test? Would it be possible to have someone pose as the father? If so I could smell a whole new profession...women paying men to claim to be the father. To be honest, In this day and age I would be surprised if something like that passed. __________________ Wish list (LV): Trunks and bags mini pochette Inclusion bracelet PM Grey-on it's way Speedy undecided Sunset boulevard amarante Lambskin Rivets Bag black

Dec 21st, 2007, 06:40 PM	#8
Roo Up to the Minute Mod Location: Rue Roo	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION It does not look like the bill is going anywhere. Many bills about moral issues often don't, so it's probably futile to even debate it. IMO this is pandering at it's worst. Most of the time the politicians who write bills (and that goes for both parties) don't care much about the real issues, it's about making it look that way to their constituents. __________________ " We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poorhouse in an automobile." -- WILL ROGERS

Dec 21st, 2007, 06:49 PM	#9
heartnaspade Ali Location: back in NYC	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION I hope this thread stays open, as long as people can express their opinions in a respectful manner. I personally think it's appalling that this bill is even being proposed. It's basically putting the entire decision in the hands of the man, since if he says "no" the abortion, she will be forced to carry to term. I am a firm believer that children should only be brought into this world when they are wanted and can be provided for - they should NOT be viewed as a "consequence" or "punishment" for a mistake. I also fear that this bill would allow men to further trap women who are in abusive relationships. Many people would be surprised to hear that there are situations out there where men have poked holes in a condom or tampered with a woman's birth control in the hopes that she would get pregnant. The same goes for women too, of course, but wouldn't that be so much scarier if you were then forced to carry that man's child?

Dec 21st, 2007, 06:54 PM	#11
devoted Member	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION I don't agree with the bill at all, but this question stood out for me "should all men be financially obligated to support a woman who becomes pregant with an unwanted child -- say he wants her to abort and she does not; should he still have to pay?" if it's 100% the woman's decision to have an abortion, then it's 100% her decision to keep a baby and raise it...hope no one kills me for believing that way, I don't think abortions will increase because of this but maybe unwanted pregnancies may decrease. I really don't want to debate this so don't attack me

Dec 21st, 2007, 06:55 PM	#12
Roo Up to the Minute Mod Location: Rue Roo	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION ^^ You have a very valid point. (I think) Its funny how there is a double standard there. __________________ " We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poorhouse in an automobile." -- WILL ROGERS

Dec 21st, 2007, 09:05 PM	#15
oo0ehxtahcee0oo ☺Livin the good life Location: ♥In my DF's arms♥	Re: you need the FATHER'S PERMISSION to have an ABORTION it takes two to tango.. and if you dont wanna tango, then wrap it up or better yet, dont do it! mistakes do happen. so i believe both partners should be finacailly responsible. __________________ [Click photo to read thread!] My blog site has great FREE goodies!! (updated 11/26) www,dearmissie.blogspot.com We did it!! New Crafts Subforum celebration here!!