What would you want to know about men?

[~Fabulousity~]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Ack. I'm going to have to be blunt, now. My apologies for what I'm about to say, but you probably have no idea how offensive what you just said is. If a man isn't successful, do you think he should approaching women altogether? If a man makes little money, should he apologize before asking a woman out? If a man is unsure what to do with his life for a while, should he just stop trying to become happy? You're essentially complaining that some financially unsuccessful men have self esteem. Just think about that for a moment. If you aren't interested in men who aren't financially successful, that's entirely up to you. But implying that you're offended because they apparently don't realize what "losers" they are is just horrible.

That is not what I was saying...And no need to apologize nothing you just said to me rubbed me the wrong way or offended me.
And no a guy should not stop living his life because he has lack of finances there are things a guy can do with a girl that dont cost much, rent a movie and pop some popcorn, order a pizza. Its all about at least taking initative IMO. My problem and that of a lot of women who give guys like this the time of day is that they seem to think that they don't need to take the initative to make a good date, expect the woman to do everything and on top of that they have a very a$$hole like attitude. And for that reason IMO they are a$$holes.

Here's a story for you...

My cousin met a guy about a month ago. Two weeks ago they wen't on their first date. She picked him up(he has no car) and they went to a happy hour where he said the wings were really good. When they got to the restaurant and the menus came he didn't allow her to order anything and quickly ordered wings for them to share. She said she was a little offended but shrugged it off. She said he also seemed a little uncomfortable when she asked for a beer. Anyways the next day dude calls her asking her when is she going to take him out, and told her he likes crab cakes and shrimp. She was offended because when he took her out he didn't even allow her to order a entree for herself but expected her to take him out and spend $30 on his plate. She gave the guy another chance and to make another long story short, he told her he'd take her to this carry out to get some fish her food totaled $13, and he only had $9. Does this sound like someone who should be dating? Now you'll probably say yes and I agree to a certain extent, thing is if he knows his money isnt all that why not be upfront about it? She now no longer wants to talk to him anymore she feels like he is a pathetic looser for what I mentioned above, and for the several lies she has caught him in.

This is the type of guy i'm talking about. I'm not talking about a good guy who just happens to not be rolling in dough. I'm talking about guys who don't have sh!t and think that women are supposed to take care of them.

[VPT]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Well, if the "I was discussing" part is accurate, and it started off with you doing a lot of talking and him saying nothing, he probably just zoned out until he heard something that sounded like something he didn't agree with But seriously... it sounds like a normal misunderstanding.

Thanks for answering, Libertine :) No I don't do much talking. He yaps much more than me, I prefer peace and quietness. Most men I know don't listen, only exception is the guy I used to work for some years ago. He is one of a kind, listens carefully, advises accordingly, and REMEMBERS every single detail. His wife must be so lucky!

[~Fabulousity~]

Originally Posted by Charles

Was someone arguing that it is wrong for a woman to have realistic standards??

Whether or not someone was arguing that it is wrong for a woman to have realistic standards is neither here nor there, I was replying to your post.

[~Fabulousity~]

Originally Posted by nooch

You can't be serious. I am pretty sure Fab was referring to the "men" who have no job, make no attempt to look for a job, don't pay their bills, spend their lives running from the child support enforcement agency, and for whatever reason, are deluded enough to believe that because they are so special, women of the world owe them a rent free place to live, a car, authorized user on their credit cards... not a good man who doesn't make much money. There are men out there (and I am sure you've met women who do this too) who wholeheartedly believe that they are a great catch despite bringing absolutely nothing to the table - financially or otherwise. Turn on Judge Judy, they're everywhere! Grown men who haven't had a job in their lives, whose mantras are "it was a gift!" and "she wanted to buy me a car and get me a job and let me live there for free!". And yeah, some women are dumb and fall for this shit (which of course gives these idiots even more confidence that they'll find a woman dumb enough to fall for it) but these men are everywhere. Don't twist her words because maybe she hit a sensitive spot! I'm pretty sure if a woman sucked your pockets dry and acted like she deserved it because she had a mystical magical vagina you would have some not-nice things to say about her. My man works at Radio Shack. I get happy if he sells someone a phone and gets an extra $15. But he WORKS to pay his bills and that's where his self esteem comes from. Getting up in the damn morning and going to school and then going to work. You can't be serious if you actually think she was disrespecting hard working low income men. She was talking about the Judge Judy men of the world.

Thanks Girl! These are exactly the types I was talking about don't know how that could go over anyones head

[~Fabulousity~]

Originally Posted by Libertine

She said they "barely make any money", implying that they do work, and specifically mentioned a number of material assets they apparently should have. Also, note that she said "no career", rather than "no job". As for the "Judge Judy men"... Judge Judy is a television show, which specifically chooses its subjects to draw viewers. It's not a representative reflection of reality. Personally, I have never even met one single man like that in real life. Part of that is probably selection bias (I have my own company which I use to pay my way through med school, so most of the men I meet are workaholics). However, since my mother used to work as a parole officer, I've seen first-hand that even ex-cons usually work 40+ hours a week.

As far as the barely making any money comment I was throwing them all in together since i'm mainly talking about their behavior and not the size of their bank account. I'm not some high maintenance chick who only dates men with hella cash, I married a man who made less than me. I have no problem with treating a guy to dinner. But I do have a problem with a$$hole guys like the one Nooch mentioned above and those are the types I was speaking about in my initial post. I guess you're probably thinking well don't date those types. That's easier said than done it seems nowadays they are getting better and better about hiding how crappy they really are. Every guy I meet now I have a 90 day rule for, I need to see if he will be the same 90 days after I met him. I know thats not such a great thing, but experience and watching what my friends go through has shown me its probably a good idea.

[forever21]

Why does he keep "poking" me on facebook, but not call/text/email?

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by ~Fabulousity~

As far as the barely making any money comment I was throwing them all in together since i'm mainly talking about their behavior and not the size of their bank account.[...]

I'm not particularly interested in getting into a heated argument over this, so I'll just say one thing: If you want to talk about behavior, giving a list of material things they lack without mentioning their actual behavior, like in the original which sparked this whole thing, might not be the best way to go about it.

After all, when talking to men you need to keep in mind that we tend to take things very literally

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by forever21

Why does he keep "poking" me on facebook, but not call/text/email?

Because he's afraid of making a real move and being rejected.

[forever21]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Because he's afraid of making a real move and being rejected.

I have poked back a few times already (over the course of months!) At this point he is just being silly. Eh...

[~Fabulousity~]

Originally Posted by Libertine

I'm not particularly interested in getting into a heated argument over this, so I'll just say one thing: If you want to talk about behavior, giving a list of material things they lack without mentioning their actual behavior, like in the original which sparked this whole thing, might not be the best way to go about it. After all, when talking to men you need to keep in mind that we tend to take things very literally

I forgot about that I know tone gets lost when typing, but no heated arguments here Lol

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by forever21

I have poked back a few times already (over the course of months!) At this point he is just being silly. Eh...

Have you called/texted/emailed him? If so, he's indeed being silly. If not, you're being just as silly.

He's obviously quite shy. So if you want to talk to him, just send him a message or call him. If not, stop poking back.

[juneping]

Originally Posted by forever21

I have poked back a few times already (over the course of months!) At this point he is just being silly. Eh...

this happened to a friend of mine...well, nothing happened.
if he was ever interested, may be not interested enough to make it to the next level...he wasn't shy though.

[forever21]

So much silliness!!

It's actually all quite complicated. He used to take me out on a few dates then I saw him all over some girl and I refused to talk to him after that. We sometimes run into each other at clubs. He also sends these mass Happy New Year Merry Christmas emails, which I never respond to. I mean the email list is massive, even my friends that he has met only like once or twice are on that list.

Shy or silly?

And I feel like if I have to ask then it's not worth it. Is that a good rule of thumb?

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by forever21

So much silliness!! It's actually all quite complicated. He used to take me out on a few dates then I saw him all over some girl and I refused to talk to him after that. We sometimes run into each other at clubs. He also sends these mass Happy New Year Merry Christmas emails, which I never respond to. Shy or silly? And I feel like if I have to ask then it's not worth it. Is that a good rule of thumb?

Generally speaking, it's an awful rule of thumb.

In this case, however, it might be warranted. Depending on the situation when you went on those dates with him (were they casual? were they "date" dates or just friendly dates? did anything happen?), you might be better off simply ignoring him.

However, if you're actually still interested in him - or anyone, for that matter - waiting for him to take the first step really is quite silly. If you want something, don't let pride or shyness stand in the way.

Because when you're 90, you definitely won't look back on your life and think "gee, I'm so glad I never found out what would have happened."

[forever21]

Originally Posted by Libertine

Generally speaking, it's an awful rule of thumb.

Wow. Really?

I just get turned off whenever the guy isn't like, beating down doors to get to me. And I'm a little cynical here, because all of my friends are single and full of complaints about their love life. I'm hesitant to get involved with anything that is weird and complicated.