Respectful opinions on divorcing when children are involved.

[dearmissie]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to state in the beginning that this topic can be very sensitive, and I hope we can all discuss this kindly without being nasty. I just wanted everyone's thoughts. There is no right or wrong answer to this. I don't want anyone to feel like they are being judged, I know we all come from different backgrounds and different families so lets be respectful of everyone and remember how diverse we are. It is what makes us unique and special. I've been pondering whether or not to make this post for over a year now. I hear about divorce so much lately, and with the rate of divorcing increasing by the second, I was really curious to hear everyone's point of views.

Growing up, I always saw divorce. My parents were divorced, my Grandparents (both remarried), the majority of my Aunts and Uncles, plus my cousins, and all of my family friends. It was sooooo normal for me hearing people divorcing and splitting up. I'd say about 80-85% of the families/people I know (who have married) had a divorce. It was really normal for me to hear. Not all of the divorces were because of cheating issues, some reasons were they fell out of love, never were in love, or were going through a midlife crisis and needed to find themselves, etc. I think growing up with divorce being so common, it didn't shock me, however it made me feel determined to never ever have one of my own. (Of course no one hopes for a divorce, but I grew up really against having one [as long as my marriage didn't have abuse or adultery] for myself because of what I experienced growing up.)

Then I met my DF. And he knows rarely anyone who's ever been divorced. Maybe 5-10%?? My DF and his whole family do not believe in divorcing at all (Again with the exception of abuse or adultery. Even with adultry they believe in getting marriage counseling and doing everything to try to save the marriage). My in laws are constantly voicing their opinions (which my DF shares) that marriage is serious and people (in general) should never ever divorce because of the children. My FIL says if the couple chooses to divorce, no matter how much they try, the family will never be "the same". He says that the parents are being selfish and putting their desires ahead of the children (of course with the exception of abuse or adultery). FIL and MIL says that there were many many times where they wanted to split up, and of course they had a lot of problems (which I am choosing not to share here because it's their private life), however they said they never ever did it for the sake of their children. They explained to me that they literally would do anything for their children. They believed that for them staying together it would give their children the best possible opportunity to a good life. My in laws have had many ups and downs, their marriage has hit so many hard places, but it amazes me how they've dealt with it for their children. They learn how to dissolve their problems by not ignoring it, but actually dealing with it. And 38-39 years later, they are still very much in love because of their constant dedication to their children and in turn, of each other. They are so happy now, they go on dates frequently and is the marriage I look up to and admire.

I totally respect my in laws' opinions, I get what they are saying (divorcing due to other issues that are not abuse or adultery). And I try to put myself in their shoes and I agree that I do think it's selfish to put myself ahead of my children just because I may be unhappy in my marriage. I do want to give my children a household with 2 loving adults under the same roof. I want to show them a good display of dedication and devotion to my family. And that they are my number one priority because they are my children. However, I think to myself, what if I am in the situation where I just am just plain unhappy with my marriage?? What if I can't deal with being hurt and upset, or depressed. What if I never get out of that funk?? Do I deserve to stay in that funk because of my children?? What if 50 years later down the road I'm still depressed?? Would I feel like I've wasted my life dedicating myself to this person for the sake of my children??

I have a great friend, and she had some hard times with her husband (of 7+ years) and things had hit rock bottom. However she and him talked and they have been working things out like crazy. They are so dedicated to one another, and meant ever single thing they said to each other in their vows. She's told me that she meant every single word she said to her husband on their wedding day, and because they never gave up, it's made them even stronger. She is such an inspiration to me, no matter how bad it got (again with the exception of abuse or adultery) you stay with your life long partner. She explained to me, "I made a promise to God and in front of all of our family and friends, I will not give up."

Then on the other side of the fence I have my Mom. I totally respect my Mom's opinion to divorce my Dad. I know she would have been living in hell if she stayed with him. (He cheated on her). I love my Mom so much, of course I wouldn't have wanted her to struggle and be unhappy being married to him. My Mom force married him because she got pregnant but she tolerated him. She did the best she could do with what she had, and she learned to love him. She admits that with time she did love him. However, he left her because of his mistress. I believe the divorce made my Mom a stronger woman. She is so independent and has been such a great parent. I look up to her and admire her for raising me on her own. She's my hero. My Mom believes that even if a man/woman doesn't cheat on his/her partner that s/he should have the freedom to leave the marriage if they are unhappy no matter what. She says it's not the divorce which states failure, it's choosing not to better your life which is failing yourself. (And I agree, divorce does not mean failure IMO!!) Life is short, and why spend so much of your life unhappy with the solution to happiness is laying right there in front of you?? She says, "You only live once, so make the best of it!!"

What are your thoughts on divorcing when there are children involved?? (Again when there is NO abuse or adultery involved??) I am from a divorced set of parents, and yes I do think it's do able to raise a good child with a single parent because I'd like to think that I'm a good spawn of my Mother and Father. However, I will admit my life was really hard. Lack of attention, not having a father figure, etc. It really gave me room to be wild and I had a really bad sour spot growing up. Like I said, I am so grateful my parents are not together, life would have been hell for the 3 of us.

[Christine]

I can't answer this smartly. My DH has two kids and the mom left them at infants. There are no guarantees in life. Sorry that kids should have to suffer. Idealy there are two parents. But in general that should not be pushed over on the kids. Love and attention should. So one should grow up knowing they are loved, not the quantity of people loving them. That's all I have.

[dearmissie]

Originally Posted by Christine

I can't answer this smartly. My DH has two kids and the mom left them at infants. There are no guarantees in life. Sorry that kids should have to suffer. Idealy there are two parents. But in general that should not be pushed over on the kids. Love and attention should. So one should grow up knowing they are loved, not the quantity of people loving them. That's all I have.

Great post Christine!! I'm sorry your DH's kids' Mother decided to leave as infants. Children do not deserve that. Luckily they have you and your DH to give them plenty of love!! And I agree, it's not the quantity of people loving you, it's the quality. Sadly, when my Father left our house, the visits became less and less and I felt like I was getting very little love and attention out of him. Eventually I cut him out of my life for about 9 years straight, he was gone and so was the connection. I had so much negativity towards him, and it's taken me years to recreate a relationship with him.

[ms-whitney]

Once, when I was younger, and a kid really..7th grade..my mom left my dad and while part of me knew why and understood I also hated it. I just wanted my parents together for me because well..I was a kid and selfish.

kids will never take a divorce easily

but down the road if you really can't stay with that person kindly you're more likely to inflict damage on your kids together, fighting and not getting along, then if you divorced and maybe even find someone more suitable.

but divorice and marriage shouldn't be taken lightly

also I should add my mom did eventually come back and they do love each other and get along..in a weird strange way I don't understand, but cute

[GirlFriday]

If there's no abuse or adultery, then I think you should stick with it. Why? Because I think all married people have times in their lives where they're not happy, and they think of divorce, but you work through it. If you go in with the attitude thinking "well, if things get hard, we can divorce" then you'll end up divorced. Because marriage IS hard at times. I don't think marriage is about being "happy" all the time. Yes, someone can make you miserable if they treat you awfully, but overall, I think being happy is a choice. Some people will be unhappy no matter what situation they're in and no matter who they're with.

That being said, there are situations where people should divorce. If a kid is constantly seeing their parents scream at each other, then I think it's best for the parents to be apart, because that is traumatizing to a child. Also, if you're with a spouse that won't work on things while you're doing everything you can to work on the marriage, there's only so much you can do. I have had friends that are my age and divorced because their spouse wouldn't budge on bad behavior. I'm not talking annoying behavior, I'm talking BAD behavior that is detrimental to the marriage. They tried so hard to work things out, but their spouses wouldn't do the same thing.

I think if people can stay together, they should, because coming from divorced parents, I missed my dad enormously, and it had a big effect on my life. But, my best friend growing up had parents who were married that screamed and yelled all the time, and my childhood was much more peaceful than hers. The best case scenario would be to have two parents who work on their marriage and work on loving each other, but that's not always the case, and nothing is ever perfect.

[orange_angel]

The ideal situation would be if the husband and wife could work out their problems and come back to a loving and happy relationship. Unfortunately I don't think it's possible in every situation (like for your parents), and if the parents can't live a happy life together, divorce is a much better option.

Children needs happy parents that can give them as much love and care as possible. Every child will prefer their parents to live together, but if the parents are unhappy and there is no solution, a divorce is so much better for the child.

[dearmissie]

Originally Posted by ms-whitney

Once, when I was younger, and a kid really..7th grade..my mom left my dad and while part of me knew why and understood I also hated it. I just wanted my parents together for me because well..I was a kid and selfish. kids will never take a divorce easily but down the road if you really can't stay with that person kindly you're more likely to inflict damage on your kids together, fighting and not getting along, then if you divorced and maybe even find someone more suitable. but divorice and marriage shouldn't be taken lightly also I should add my mom did eventually come back and they do love each other and get along..in a weird strange way I don't understand, but cute

I didn't take the divorce easily (although I handled it better than most), and I wasn't mad that they divorced. I was more mad at the fact that my father cheated on our family. And I do agree that sometimes splitting up may seem like the better decision when all you are doing is fighting and screaming at each other in front of the kids. That can't be healthy. One of my girlfriend's really wishes her parents would split. She hates knowing how nasty they fight and said it was really hard growing up with that. However, my DF (and all of his siblings) are so grateful their parents stick it through. They said it's given them something to look up to and base a real marriage out of. Knowing that marriages aren't perfect and both parties are bond to make mistakes, but dedication, determination and communication is the key.

[dearmissie]

Originally Posted by GirlFriday

If there's no abuse or adultery, then I think you should stick with it. Why? Because I think all married people have times in their lives where they're not happy, and they think of divorce, but you work through it. If you go in with the attitude thinking "well, if things get hard, we can divorce" then you'll end up divorced. Because marriage IS hard at times. I don't think marriage is about being "happy" all the time. Yes, someone can make you miserable if they treat you awfully, but overall, I think being happy is a choice. Some people will be unhappy no matter what situation they're in and no matter who they're with. That being said, there are situations where people should divorce. If a kid is constantly seeing their parents scream at each other, then I think it's best for the parents to be apart, because that is traumatizing to a child. Also, if you're with a spouse that won't work on things while you're doing everything you can to work on the marriage, there's only so much you can do. I have had friends that are my age and divorced because their spouse wouldn't budge on bad behavior. I'm not talking annoying behavior, I'm talking BAD behavior that is detrimental to the marriage. They tried so hard to work things out, but their spouses wouldn't do the same thing. I think if people can stay together, they should, because coming from divorced parents, I missed my dad enormously, and it had a big effect on my life. But, my best friend growing up had parents who were married that screamed and yelled all the time, and my childhood was much more peaceful than hers. The best case scenario would be to have two parents who work on their marriage and work on loving each other, but that's not always the case, and nothings is ever perfect.

Ahh, this whole post is so right on how I feel!! The first paragraph is how I feel about a lot of divorces that go on now a days. Marriage is never easy. My FIL says its 10x harder than dating. I think people who get married now just don't realize what a marriage is really suppose to be about and they just take forgranted what they've gotten themselves into. Very good post!!

[dearmissie]

Originally Posted by orange_angel

The ideal situation would be if the husband and wife could work out their problems and come back to a loving and happy relationship. Unfortunately I don't think it's possible in every situation (like for your parents), and if the parents can't live a happy life together, divorce is a much better option. Children needs happy parents that can give them as much love and care as possible. Every child will prefer their parents to live together, but if the parents are unhappy and there is no solution, a divorce is so much better for the child.

[Pierito510]

I think you are putting too much emphasis on others peoples lives and opinions [inlaws and friends]. Is this a question about your own marriage? or a question in general?
I have known a lot of people with the philosophy that you have to live life to the fullest and 3 divorces later they are still single...This is not everybody of course..violence constant fighting alcohol drugs there are serious issues that definetely would be better to start considering divorce.. Also every relationship is difficult, because 2 diff people 2 diff upbringing and it's not going to be easy, the next one won't be easier..
DH and I were going to divorce 7 years ago, then 5 years ago...and now it's better than ever..like all the junk got out in the open and we have learned to love and respect each other more..I am so sad to think I would have lost him if I would have gone through...[and we don't have any children]
I always prefer to give positive advice..to understand and love each other and to become best friends, to keep the romance alive..it's hard even harder with children..work...problems and most of us would like to run sometimes...it's a defensive reaction...but try to give it a try...also I don't really think it's fear to expect from your partner to bring you 100% joy and fulfillment...
My best wishes for you and anybody who is going through hard times..marriage is not easy...it takes effort

[dearmissie]

Originally Posted by Pierito510

I think you are putting too much emphasis on others peoples lives and opinions [inlaws and friends]. Is this a question about your own marriage? or a question in general? I have known a lot of people with the philosophy that you have to live life to the fullest and 3 divorces later they are still single...This is not everybody of course..violence constant fighting alcohol drugs there are serious issues that definetely would be better to start considering divorce.. Also every relationship is difficult, because 2 diff people 2 diff upbringing and it's not going to be easy, the next one won't be easier.. DH and I were going to divorce 7 years ago, then 5 years ago...and now it's better than ever..like all the junk got out in the open and we have learned to love and respect each other more..I am so sad to think I would have lost him if I would have gone through...[and we don't have any children] I always prefer to give positive advice..to understand and love each other and to become best friends, to keep the romance alive..it's hard even harder with children..work...problems and most of us would like to run sometimes...it's a defensive reaction...but try to give it a try...also I don't really think it's fear to expect from your partner to bring you 100% joy and fulfillment... My best wishes for you and anybody who is going through hard times..marriage is not easy...it takes effort

This is just a general question for everyone and anyone to answer (no my relationship is not going through a "hard time" at the moment). I put emphasis on others in my original post just to share with people what I've been exposed to, and also to show people that there is no right or wrong way to life. I just honestly wanted to hear what others thought and to learn from everyone.

[Pierito510]

Oh Great! I am happy to hear that, ..... I guess that was my opinion anyway
if that's you in the avatar...you look great and soooo young..so I was really hoping you weren't going through hard times at this young age!!!

[dearmissie]

Originally Posted by Pierito510

Oh Great! I am happy to hear that, ..... I guess that was my opinion anyway if that's you in the avatar...you look great and soooo young..so I was really hoping you weren't going through hard times at this young age!!!

Yup, that's me in my avatar!! And that is my darling Fiancee in it as well! We just celebrated our 4 year anniversary 2 days ago (July 1) and are very much in love, more and more each day. Don't get me wrong, we've hit a really rough patch before (and damn was it hell, in laws can be hard!!) but we worked things out 2-3 years ago and things have been better than ever. I believe it made us even stronger and more committed to one another. And now we both feel as if we are ready to take on marriage and all of its ups and downs. We're a team and a force not to be reckoned with!!

[merika]

There is a saying in my native language that roughly translates as "You can't clap with one hand". I think this is true for anything involving a couple. To make a marriage a good one, both people have to be in agreement that they want the marriage to work, and they should actively work towards maintaining a happy marriage. If one person is just going along with the marriage because it's comfortable, or if both are staying together because of the children I don't think it's a good situation.

I know many older couples from my parents' generation who stay together because of the kids, including a couple who are married, live in the same household but don't talk to each other at all. They have domestic help and all conversation is carried on through either the children or the household help. It's immensely awkward and embarrassing even for the casual observer and the kids hate it, but the parents think that they're living in the same household for the sake of the kids and they're doing the kids a favor. Each of the parents is immensely critical and disrespectful of the other when talking to other people, wish aloud that they were not married to each other but end their conversation with "but we're doing it for the children". My thought about their situation is "what's the point, and what kind of example are you providing your children about treating a partner?"

So....my take on the situation is yes, you can stay together in a marriage for the children but BOTH of you have to actively want to stay, and work to make things better for yourself AND the other person if one or the other of you is not happy with how the marriage is working out.

[Kansashalo]

/\ I totally agree with you.

As a child of divorce, let me be the first to say that "staying together for the kids" is really a farce - the purpose IMO is only to ease the parents conscience. Kids know the difference between parents that are together/working through a rough patch (because they typically will show some affection between one another) vs. parents that are simply living under the same roof (as in college roomates). It's obvious as the day is long. I think that type of situation does the most damage because it teaches you that a marriage has no visible affection, the focus is 100% on kids, and that people in a marriage are typically unhappy.

IF (and that's a big if) I ever decide to get married, I plan to only divorce if there is abuse or adultery. This may be why I'm so selective as to who that person is/will be. Or I could just have committment issues so who knows.