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Roo · Aug 7th, 2009, 01:35 AM

^^ I am really sorry to hear this but try not to get yourself too upset about this. You probably knew in your heart that this would happen but hoped it would not.

Did you read the links I posted about parental alienation? Your mom is behaving like a classic alienator. She would rather you commit TAX FRAUD so she can get what she wants? I.dont.think.so.

Just because she raised you and paid for your education does not entitle her to compel you to commit financial crimes.

She needs to take responsibility and GET A JOB. With her down payment even a minimal job, she could qualify for a loan... but you know she won't do this... the reason is because, again, she feels entitled and by you buying this condo, it gives her leverage over you both emotionally and financially... and this will likely never change.

I am so, so sorry you are going thru this. I do commend you though, because you have figured out what is going on with your mother at a fairly young age and have the emotional maturity and intestinal fortitude to stand up to her. I have stepkids your age who are in the same predicament but will not say "no" to their mother, to their own detriment....

Hang in there

Roo · Aug 7th, 2009, 02:05 AM

MG, here are some snips to an article about adult children of PAS, that you might find helpful:

http://www.divorcemag.com/articles/P...en-of-pas.html

Quote:

Realization of Parental Alienation is a Process Not an Event

It was usually a slow and painful process for the interviewees to realize that they had been turned against a parent by the other parent. For most of the adult children of PAS, the realization did not occur in a single transformative event. The defense mechanisms constructed to support the alienation take time to be broken through: they involve denying that the alienating parent is selfish and manipulative, denying that the targeted parent has positive qualities, denying that the child wants a relationship with the targeted parent, denying that the child is afraid of losing the love of the alienating parent. Although all of the adult children had come to realize that they had been alienated from one parent by the other, the length of time they had been alienated and the age of awareness varied. Length of time alienated ranged from 7 to 47 years, with an average of about 20 years.

Quote:

There were 11 identifiable pathways or catalysts for the adult children of PAS to realize that one parent had alienated them from the targeted parent. In many cases, this led to a reunion with the targeted parent and a distancing from the alienating parent. Most of the adult children of PAS mentioned only one catalyst. But it is more likely that a confluence of factors were present. Their memory may not provide a complete understanding of what actually allowed them to become aware that they had been manipulated. The "good news" is that there are many ways to get from manipulated alienation to awareness and autonomy. Targeted parents currently alienated from a child can gather hope from these stories that it is possible for alienation to be reversed and that there are many ways that this can happen. The "bad news" is that it is not clear what the specific steps are to make this process more likely to occur. Some of these stories are so idiosyncratic that it is not possible to draw definitive conclusions about how the process of becoming aware of the alienation occurred.

It is also notable that most of the adult children of PAS experienced this process as slow and painful, although in the end they were grateful to know the truth and to have a more balanced understanding of their parents. They were happy to have found their way back to the targeted parent and to learn that for the most part this parent was not a dangerous unloving person as they had been to believe. At the same time the awareness of the alienation led to a greater degree of conflict in their relationship with the alienating parent. For some this had occurred anyway as that parent turned on them. Nonetheless, awareness of the alienation created a greater degree of separation and lack of shared reality with the alienating parent than had been present in their relationship up to that point. As Alice Miller (1988) argued, denying the truth allows one to avoid acknowledging a painful reality. Not knowing something that is true entails a loss of self as one closes off parts of one's own thoughts and feelings that -- if conscious -- would lead to the realization. Miller believed that the body holds onto the truth and that pain is incurred when the mind and the body are in conflict, "If your cognitive system asserts the opposite of what the cells in your body unerringly identify as the truth you will live in a permanent state of inner disorder" (1988, p. 5). For this reason, there was a palpable sigh of relief that could be felt as the participants described with candor the shortcomings of the alienating parent, including the reality that this person had put his/her own needs above the needs of his/her own children.

materialgurl · Aug 7th, 2009, 02:22 AM

Hi Roo, thanks for your support! And yes I did briefly read the link you posted a few days ago. I think it describes her perfectly.

I am just still in shock. I think my bf is as well.. I think it's really affecting us.. because she is very unpredictable.. never know what move she would pull next.

I just typed a very long letter to my cousin... my cousin and my aunt are currently staying with her. My cousin is here to study from Asia.. so his English is not that great, but his Chinese is WAYYYY better than mine! I just explained the whole situation to them in English, I hope they understand and not think I'm just neglecting her.

Anyway, I told him that she is very capable of getting a job.. even like a minimum wage job. If she puts down a good 40%-50% down, I think the bank would still consider her mortgage application.

Roo, good luck with your step kids! I guess sometimes moms are just so manipulative... I think in time they will realize =)

Roo · Aug 7th, 2009, 02:26 AM

^^ MG, no problem. I don't envy you, this is a tough situation but you are doing the right thing. Also it sounds like your Dad is very supportive so seek him out for help, he has probably wanted to help you for a while but was hoping you would eventually 'see' what was really going on with your mother's behavior

Sometimes doing the right thing is also the most difficult. No parent should put their child in a situation like this, it's not right and you realize that. The sad part is that you may just have to accept that your Mother is like this and is not likely to change... also, I am familiar with PAS on a professional level from working in the mental health field in the past (as well as in my personal life) and I can tell you that she may escalate the behavior and flip out even more to try to re-gain the control she is realizing she is losing... so be ready

ahertz · Aug 7th, 2009, 01:13 PM

Big hugs to you. It's hard to say no to our parents--we're going through a situation with my FIL and MIL.

But even if she WASN'T as difficult as she is, it still wouldn't be appropriate to help her in the way she is asking (demanding).

materialgurl · Aug 7th, 2009, 02:27 PM

now she keeps harrassing me! she called me like 3-4 times last night.. and calls me this morning mainly to tell me what she's been through raising me.. trying to guilt me into buying an apartment.. seriously what kind of bullshit is this. now im MAD!!!!!

Roo · Aug 7th, 2009, 03:08 PM

^^ Don't answer her calls. It's probably going to escalate. I'm so sorry.

Avril · Aug 7th, 2009, 06:17 PM

OMG this is terrible! Your mother is behaving in a horrible way treating you like that. Ignore the calls until she starts talking like a reasonable person again. Hang in there

kate83675 · Aug 7th, 2009, 08:00 PM

I just read this whole thread, I'm so sorry materialgirl. You're doing the right thing as hard as it is.

A lot of us have a horrible relationship with our mothers and they refuse any responsibility so you're not the only one although I doubt that's very comforting now. I used to constantly agonize over my 'relationship' with my mother. I'm sorry to say now that I don't have anything to do with her I'm much happier.

I'd be very surprised if you could get a mortgage anyway, the last time I checked rental income isn't considered for qualifying for a mortgage.

materialgurl · Aug 7th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by kate83675

I just read this whole thread, I'm so sorry materialgirl. You're doing the right thing as hard as it is.

A lot of us have a horrible relationship with our mothers and they refuse any responsibility so you're not the only one although I doubt that's very comforting now. I used to constantly agonize over my 'relationship' with my mother. I'm sorry to say now that I don't have anything to do with her I'm much happier.

I'd be very surprised if you could get a mortgage anyway, the last time I checked rental income isn't considered for qualifying for a mortgage.

I can totally relate... I really do not want anything to do with her after putting me through this. I wish she would stop contacting me. ANyway thank you so much for your support and everyone else for that matter!!

cocokitty · Aug 7th, 2009, 08:53 PM

No offense, but your mom doesn't sound very rational and people like this can't be reasoned with. They'll either no uinderstand and/or get overly emotional. I would tell her the bank denied you a loan and say you had bad credit. It's not like she can actually check if she doesn't speak English.

Roo · Aug 7th, 2009, 08:58 PM

This is really tough, I'm sorry this is happening and you are being put in such an unfair position...

I wanted to ask: how is your mom surviving now? If she is only making a small amount of money, how does she pay rent now? Does she live with relatives?

Also, would it be helpful if your Dad called her and told her to back off? Or do you think that would make it worse?

Jahpson · Aug 7th, 2009, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by materialgurl

now she keeps harrassing me! she called me like 3-4 times last night.. and calls me this morning mainly to tell me what she's been through raising me.. trying to guilt me into buying an apartment.. seriously what kind of bullshit is this. now im MAD!!!!!

dont answer the calls and dont let her take advantage of you. Nor make you feel guilty.

Ellie Mae · Aug 7th, 2009, 09:15 PM

I am sorry MG... this is

!! Take this one day at a time, don't answer her calls, don't respond to her anger. And remember, her anger is not because you did something wrong. Her anger is because she did not get what she wants. There should not be any guilt on your part. If she really wants this, she has a good monetary start.. she can go get it on her own, eventually. Instead of trying to force someone else to give it to her.
Stand your ground...

DlkinVegas · Aug 7th, 2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Jahpson

dont answer the calls and dont let her take advantage of you. Nor make you feel guilty.

That is what I would do.

Aug 7th, 2009, 01:35 AM	#46
Roo au courant Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Rue Roo Posts: 12,710	^^ I am really sorry to hear this but try not to get yourself too upset about this. You probably knew in your heart that this would happen but hoped it would not. Did you read the links I posted about parental alienation? Your mom is behaving like a classic alienator. She would rather you commit TAX FRAUD so she can get what she wants? I.dont.think.so. Just because she raised you and paid for your education does not entitle her to compel you to commit financial crimes. She needs to take responsibility and GET A JOB. With her down payment even a minimal job, she could qualify for a loan... but you know she won't do this... the reason is because, again, she feels entitled and by you buying this condo, it gives her leverage over you both emotionally and financially... and this will likely never change. I am so, so sorry you are going thru this. I do commend you though, because you have figured out what is going on with your mother at a fairly young age and have the emotional maturity and intestinal fortitude to stand up to her. I have stepkids your age who are in the same predicament but will not say "no" to their mother, to their own detriment.... Hang in there
	__________________ When I started counting my blessings, my whole life turned around. --Willie Nelson

Aug 7th, 2009, 02:22 AM	#48
materialgurl OP in a material world Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 458	Hi Roo, thanks for your support! And yes I did briefly read the link you posted a few days ago. I think it describes her perfectly. I am just still in shock. I think my bf is as well.. I think it's really affecting us.. because she is very unpredictable.. never know what move she would pull next. I just typed a very long letter to my cousin... my cousin and my aunt are currently staying with her. My cousin is here to study from Asia.. so his English is not that great, but his Chinese is WAYYYY better than mine! I just explained the whole situation to them in English, I hope they understand and not think I'm just neglecting her. Anyway, I told him that she is very capable of getting a job.. even like a minimum wage job. If she puts down a good 40%-50% down, I think the bank would still consider her mortgage application. Roo, good luck with your step kids! I guess sometimes moms are just so manipulative... I think in time they will realize =)
	__________________ Wishlist: [x] Chanel white jumbo Classic cavier flap with s/h [x] Chanel long lamb leather Classic wallet [x] Gucci medium Pelham shoulder bag [x] Louis Vuitton mini lin Speedy [x] Balenciaga black part-time [ ] Chanel black half moon cavier WOC [ ] Louis Vuitton Manhatten GM [ ] Hermes Birkin ultimate dream bag! hopefully by age 30

Aug 7th, 2009, 02:26 AM	#49
Roo au courant Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Rue Roo Posts: 12,710	^^ MG, no problem. I don't envy you, this is a tough situation but you are doing the right thing. Also it sounds like your Dad is very supportive so seek him out for help, he has probably wanted to help you for a while but was hoping you would eventually 'see' what was really going on with your mother's behavior Sometimes doing the right thing is also the most difficult. No parent should put their child in a situation like this, it's not right and you realize that. The sad part is that you may just have to accept that your Mother is like this and is not likely to change... also, I am familiar with PAS on a professional level from working in the mental health field in the past (as well as in my personal life) and I can tell you that she may escalate the behavior and flip out even more to try to re-gain the control she is realizing she is losing... so be ready
	__________________ When I started counting my blessings, my whole life turned around. --Willie Nelson

Aug 7th, 2009, 01:13 PM	#50
ahertz Member Joined: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,256	Big hugs to you. It's hard to say no to our parents--we're going through a situation with my FIL and MIL. But even if she WASN'T as difficult as she is, it still wouldn't be appropriate to help her in the way she is asking (demanding).
	__________________

Aug 7th, 2009, 02:27 PM	#51
materialgurl OP in a material world Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 458	now she keeps harrassing me! she called me like 3-4 times last night.. and calls me this morning mainly to tell me what she's been through raising me.. trying to guilt me into buying an apartment.. seriously what kind of bullshit is this. now im MAD!!!!!
	__________________ Wishlist: [x] Chanel white jumbo Classic cavier flap with s/h [x] Chanel long lamb leather Classic wallet [x] Gucci medium Pelham shoulder bag [x] Louis Vuitton mini lin Speedy [x] Balenciaga black part-time [ ] Chanel black half moon cavier WOC [ ] Louis Vuitton Manhatten GM [ ] Hermes Birkin ultimate dream bag! hopefully by age 30

Aug 7th, 2009, 03:08 PM	#52
Roo au courant Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Rue Roo Posts: 12,710	^^ Don't answer her calls. It's probably going to escalate. I'm so sorry.
	__________________ When I started counting my blessings, my whole life turned around. --Willie Nelson

Aug 7th, 2009, 06:17 PM	#53
Avril grly grl Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,160	OMG this is terrible! Your mother is behaving in a horrible way treating you like that. Ignore the calls until she starts talking like a reasonable person again. Hang in there
Avril grly grl Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,160	__________________ Wish List: Chanel black classic caviar jumbo flap with GHW 35cm Etoupe Togo Birkin with PHW and rose shocking interior lining

Aug 7th, 2009, 08:00 PM	#54
kate83675 Throw It!! Joined: Nov 2008 Location: SW Florida Posts: 1,997	I just read this whole thread, I'm so sorry materialgirl. You're doing the right thing as hard as it is. A lot of us have a horrible relationship with our mothers and they refuse any responsibility so you're not the only one although I doubt that's very comforting now. I used to constantly agonize over my 'relationship' with my mother. I'm sorry to say now that I don't have anything to do with her I'm much happier. I'd be very surprised if you could get a mortgage anyway, the last time I checked rental income isn't considered for qualifying for a mortgage.
	__________________ Border Collies Never Quit Just one little Ginger HH Celina is all I want. Please let me know if you find one.

Aug 7th, 2009, 08:53 PM	#56
cocokitty Sofa King Banned Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 443	No offense, but your mom doesn't sound very rational and people like this can't be reasoned with. They'll either no uinderstand and/or get overly emotional. I would tell her the bank denied you a loan and say you had bad credit. It's not like she can actually check if she doesn't speak English.
cocokitty Sofa King Banned Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 443

Aug 7th, 2009, 08:58 PM	#57
Roo au courant Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Rue Roo Posts: 12,710	This is really tough, I'm sorry this is happening and you are being put in such an unfair position... I wanted to ask: how is your mom surviving now? If she is only making a small amount of money, how does she pay rent now? Does she live with relatives? Also, would it be helpful if your Dad called her and told her to back off? Or do you think that would make it worse?
	__________________ When I started counting my blessings, my whole life turned around. --Willie Nelson

Aug 7th, 2009, 09:15 PM	#59
Ellie Mae KIABCRS Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,309	I am sorry MG... this is !! Take this one day at a time, don't answer her calls, don't respond to her anger. And remember, her anger is not because you did something wrong. Her anger is because she did not get what she wants. There should not be any guilt on your part. If she really wants this, she has a good monetary start.. she can go get it on her own, eventually. Instead of trying to force someone else to give it to her. Stand your ground...
Ellie Mae KIABCRS Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,309	__________________ *http://scams-n-shams.blogspot.com*

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