I have a secret.....

[amanda]

Well I'll answer your question anyway, even though you're ignoring me, because I like to explain the things that I say when people have questions about them.

Decreasing the divorce taboo has allowed people, first and foremost, to vacate abusive relationships. And not just physically abusive ones - emotional abuse as well. Back in the 1950s, it would have been assumed that the wife was asking for it (and emotional abuse wasn't even a concept) and the woman would have had to endure years upon years of cruelty because she had no way out.

Second, giving women the option to divorce forces society to value women as individuals and not just half of a couple. If women aren't allowed to vacate unhappy relationship because they'll be seen as failures (and that view is visited almost only upon women), then that's a clear indication that a woman is only valuable and worthy of appreciation if she can find a man to tie herself to for the rest of her life - without the man, the woman is considered pathetic. When the divorce taboo is broken, society is forced to view women as individuals with agency over their own happiness and choices, regardless of their relationship status.

In countries where divorce is illegal, difficult to obtain, or only available when requested by men, levels of spousal abuse are much higher. Women in those countries are usually undereducated and married off at young ages - it may be tempting to romanticize that a lack of choice would force happiness upon people through hard work, but it doesn't. It forces second class citizenship on women and shoots us straight back to a society that we long ago moved past.

So you may take personal offense at the divorce rate, but having the choice only HELPS women as a whole. And as with most things - if you don't like divorce, don't get one.

[TopGirl]

Originally Posted by bisousx

My father was unhappily married for 30 years and divorcing my mom brought him to the love of his life, my stepmom. My brother and I could not be happier for them. Not everyone suffers from divorce, and I am thankful that we live in a society where we have choices. OP, life is short and you deserve to be happy. My only 2cents is to be very cautious about this guy you like, because while you may be certain that you are unhappily married, life with new guy might just look greener from where you are right now. best wishes

I am happy for your father but cases like this TO ME are the exception to the rule.

off topic (sorry OP for hijacking but some seems to have misinterpreted what i am saying).

Iam simply relating divorce used as tool used by some /many ( i believe being responsible for the high level of failed marriages.
Divorce being an option IN MY OPINION makes people less likely tot hink through getting married in the 1st place , hence more likely to bail out.

Not thing groundbreaking or controversial, yet some choose to be infuriated by someone that has a different POV (which will not change any time soon).

Op I apologise again for hijacking this thread. your responses to me have been really sincere and straightforward without the need to belittle my opinions (ahem) in order to justify your choices.

I hope you start your new life with a level head: please do not jump into things with the new guy and watch him carefully, think about what you expect from him and this new relationship and good luck.

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by TopGirl

Yes many couples stayed together because divorce was shunned by society and could totally ostracize the woman in particular. But wouldn't that fact ( that there is no way out) make couples more thoughtful about getting married in the 1st place? I may be naive to think that people would get married for the right reason, sticking to their commitment in this scenario, rather than throwing the towel .

Not really, because for the same society who didnt accept divorce, pushed for getting married a golden standard and a goal and very often you had to get married to actually see if this was going anywhere. A case of a damned if you do and damned if you dont.

[Bella]

BagLadie.. I just want to say I understand where you are right now. You have my support and encouragement. I know you can't go back and change things done, but moving forward you deserve to be happy... and please hold your head up, you are so much more than any regret. Best to you.

[TopGirl]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

Not really, because for the same society who didnt accept divorce, pushed for getting married a golden standard and a goal and very often you had to get married to actually see if this was going anywhere. A case of a damned if you do and damned if you dont.

so what is the cause for the high level of failed marriage assuming that everyone these days thinks it through and tries their hardest, using divorce as the last resort?

Also being damned would make one want to make most of a bad situation aka try harder.Marriage in the past were not perfect but i view them in a much positive light then what is going on currently.

I am fascinated by the overall blase attitude that most currently have towards marriage and If I don't find somebody hat shares my view I actually don't want to waste my time and will not get married period.

[vhdos]

Originally Posted by Bella

BagLadie.. I just want to say I understand where you are right now. You have my support and encouragement. I know you can't go back and change things done, but moving forward you deserve to be happy... and please hold your head up, you are so much more than any regret. Best to you.

Very well said Bella.

[thelace]

Originally Posted by redney

The "I've got a secret" thread in General Discussion where secrets are posted anonymously. ETA: here's a link to it: Our Very Own Purse Secret: Part II

Ah thanks. Thought I was missing out on summat

[bernz84]

Uh...I might be getting a little OT, but I don't think the majority of people get married with the idea that divorce is an option if it doesn't work out. Even the OP said that she thought they would last forever; on the surface, it seemed like her husband had everything a woman would ask for. If this is the case, well, heck, I might as well have married my college ex whom I met 6 years ago. I knew he wasn't the one for me, but at least I'd have it on paper that I've been married before. I'm kidding.

I think most people who *do* want to test out commitment often live together/cohabitate. I have my own opinions on that, but anyway, I find it a little incredulous to believe that people marry knowing that the relationship won't last long. I would like to think that people have some optimism with their own relationships.

[shy*violet]

good luck to you ... wishing you and your entire family the best to come

[BagLadie]

Wow I leave here for an afternoon and come back to a whirlwind!

First of all...I love you guys. Not just the ones that gave me only supporting words - but also those that are questioning me. It's interesting to read all these points of view. Remember, there is nothing you could say to offend me - I really do that to myself daily. I have become my own worst enemy I think.

I would like to respond to all your posts - possibly tomorrow when I have more time. My brother and best friend were over giving me support today and tonight and I am not sure I can even think right now. Thank god for good friends, and thank god for a good bottle of wine.

Please don't think I am ignoring any of your posts. I have read each and every single one of them and will respond tomorrow.

[BagLadie]

Originally Posted by Bella

BagLadie.. I just want to say I understand where you are right now. You have my support and encouragement. I know you can't go back and change things done, but moving forward you deserve to be happy... and please hold your head up, you are so much more than any regret. Best to you.

Thank you.

[BagLadie]

Originally Posted by shy*violet

good luck to you ... wishing you and your entire family the best to come

thank you so veryyyy much.

[debsmith]

Originally Posted by Bella

BagLadie.. I just want to say I understand where you are right now. You have my support and encouragement. I know you can't go back and change things done, but moving forward you deserve to be happy... and please hold your head up, you are so much more than any regret. Best to you.

What a beautiful post...simple but very powerful.

[debsmith]

[QUOTE=BagLadie;11572425]...

It was never what I wanted it to be. I did try very hard to make it work. He never did anything wrong - but have any of you ever looked at your spouses and felt.....nothing? It's not like I can even try to get those feelings back...they were never really there.

The worst feeling in the world. Best of luck to you in your search for strength and happiness.

[sweetneet]

Originally Posted by amanda

Well I'll answer your question anyway, even though you're ignoring me, because I like to explain the things that I say when people have questions about them. Decreasing the divorce taboo has allowed people, first and foremost, to vacate abusive relationships. And not just physically abusive ones - emotional abuse as well. Back in the 1950s, it would have been assumed that the wife was asking for it (and emotional abuse wasn't even a concept) and the woman would have had to endure years upon years of cruelty because she had no way out. Second, giving women the option to divorce forces society to value women as individuals and not just half of a couple. If women aren't allowed to vacate unhappy relationship because they'll be seen as failures (and that view is visited almost only upon women), then that's a clear indication that a woman is only valuable and worthy of appreciation if she can find a man to tie herself to for the rest of her life - without the man, the woman is considered pathetic. When the divorce taboo is broken, society is forced to view women as individuals with agency over their own happiness and choices, regardless of their relationship status. In countries where divorce is illegal, difficult to obtain, or only available when requested by men, levels of spousal abuse are much higher. Women in those countries are usually undereducated and married off at young ages - it may be tempting to romanticize that a lack of choice would force happiness upon people through hard work, but it doesn't. It forces second class citizenship on women and shoots us straight back to a society that we long ago moved past. So you may take personal offense at the divorce rate, but having the choice only HELPS women as a whole. And as with most things - if you don't like divorce, don't get one.

very well said

i agree with this and what charles said previously. in the 40s my grandmother was essentially forced into marriage as a result of pregnancy (if u got pregnant, you married the guy, that was the rule back then). throughout the marriage, my grandfather slapped my grandma around and cheated on her with other women, but there was really nothing she could do because divorce was not really an option back then. it wasn't until the late 70s when society & rules changed somewhat (and my grandmother's youngest child was grown) that my grandmother was able to get a divorce. after that she was able to go back to college and finish her degree and get her own career. So i would say divorce helped her in this case. I've heard countless other stories from older relatives/friends in similar situations. Basically, when divorce was not an option, that did NOT necessarily equal more people in loving, healthy marriages. Many times there was domestic violence, emotional abuse, cheating, etc yet it was hidden under the surface since those things were taboo to even talk about. So this illusion of "the good old days" of marriage when very few people got divorced, mothers & fathers happily stayed together, is simply that, an illusion. There was no such thing.

anyway sorry to go somewhat off topic --- to Bagladie, i just want to say it must have taken a lot of courage to post this thread, and i think you have handled everyone's responses/suggestions with the utmost grace. i can't really add much to what has already been said, just want to say i really wish you well in whatever you choose to do!!