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amanda · Jul 6th, 2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Charles

Just curious, why does this matter so much to people? Who cares what other people are doing in their relationships? To be honest, I think situations like Ann's are sad, and if were back in the 50's, she'd be treated like a leper, and have to stay in an unhappy marriage, just for the sake of keeping up appearances. People make mistakes, and relationships are no different. At least where we are in society, people can admit those mistakes, divorce and attempt to find someone else that they can last with. Now, I'm not advocating people to simply give up, but this working and working on a relationship...when does it end? When is it ok to admit it's not going to work out? Who gets to decide that? To me, when the relationship is more work than there's love, then something needs to happen, and one of those possibilities is a divorce.
Why is divorce such a negative term? Why are you a failure if you get one? To me, you're more of a failure if you stay in a loveless marriage, and really, no one can truly determine that, aside from the two people who are in it. Recognize it's not working, cut your loses and move on.
I also want to say that I definitely don't agree with Ann cheating, but that's in the past and she's done doing that. She's realized her mistakes and is trying to fix them. I'm sure what she feels can never come close to the crap you guys are giving her, so lighten up a bit. She knows she screwed up. No need to keep harping on it.
To address the idea of her not working for her marriage...uh, she's been married for 15 years. I think she gave it a good shot. It was doomed from the beginning, but again, we all make mistakes. Let's try to move past the lecturing cause she's past that. That's why a lot of people are being supportive here. It's over...now let's focus on helping her get through what's left.

And this is why I encourage people to wait on marriage...even at 25. Your 20's are such a period of maturation, that's it's really impossible to know you're going to feel the same way about one person. I know, I know, at the time, it feels so right, but 10 years from now, it might feel the exact opposite. If you're truly meant to be together, then waiting a few more years won't matter.

ITA with this. All of it.

The OP has been married for well over a decade; for any of us to assume that she hasn't made a REAL effort to make it work in all of those years is, well, rather presumptuous and patronizing on our part. Being able to recognize that a mistake, or many mistakes, has been made and move on with your life is not a bad thing, and no one should assume that it will ruin the lives of her children if done respectfully and with third-party support from a therapist or counselor. Some of the people that I know whose parents are divorced are screwed up, sure, but not at any noticeably greater rate than the people I know whose parents aren't divorced. Most of them talk openly about the experience and are ultimately happy for their parents and that they made the decision to seek happiness. Having happy, healthy parents is the greatest blessing that a child can ask for.

I think we're all very, very fortunate to live in a society that allows people to vacate a relationship if it's not working. And it's sad when it happens, for all involved, but sometimes it's necessary.

vhdos · Jul 6th, 2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Charles

Just curious, why does this matter so much to people? Who cares what other people are doing in their relationships? To be honest, I think situations like Ann's are sad, and if were back in the 50's, she'd be treated like a leper, and have to stay in an unhappy marriage, just for the sake of keeping up appearances. People make mistakes, and relationships are no different. At least where we are in society, people can admit those mistakes, divorce and attempt to find someone else that they can last with. Now, I'm not advocating people to simply give up, but this working and working on a relationship...when does it end? When is it ok to admit it's not going to work out? Who gets to decide that? To me, when the relationship is more work than there's love, then something needs to happen, and one of those possibilities is a divorce.
Why is divorce such a negative term? Why are you a failure if you get one? To me, you're more of a failure if you stay in a loveless marriage, and really, no one can truly determine that, aside from the two people who are in it. Recognize it's not working, cut your loses and move on.
I also want to say that I definitely don't agree with Ann cheating, but that's in the past and she's done doing that. She's realized her mistakes and is trying to fix them. I'm sure what she feels can never come close to the crap you guys are giving her, so lighten up a bit. She knows she screwed up. No need to keep harping on it.
To address the idea of her not working for her marriage...uh, she's been married for 15 years. I think she gave it a good shot. It was doomed from the beginning, but again, we all make mistakes. Let's try to move past the lecturing cause she's past that. That's why a lot of people are being supportive here. It's over...now let's focus on helping her get through what's left.

And this is why I encourage people to wait on marriage...even at 25. Your 20's are such a period of maturation, that's it's really impossible to know you're going to feel the same way about one person. I know, I know, at the time, it feels so right, but 10 years from now, it might feel the exact opposite. If you're truly meant to be together, then waiting a few more years won't matter.

Charles telling posters to lighten up a bit? Usually you are the one, Charles, giving the honest, yet sometimes harsh, advice (which I typically appreciate, by the way).
For me, this whole thread wasn't about a marriage not working, cheating, etc. It was the warm and fuzzy responses from some of the posters that just rubbed me the wrong way. I can say that I commend Ann for being honest, but after reading through all of her posts, I can not honestly say, "I'm proud of you", etc.
Even though we realize that her husband was not a Saint through all of this, many of us do feel sorry for him. What about his life? As far as I'm concerned, he was deceived right from the beginning and has wasted all these years in a loveless marriage. I can only imagine what I would feel like if I found out that my DH never really loved me at all and then had an affair.
I think we can all agree that each of us deserves to be happy. It's unfortunate that things have worked out this way for Ann and her family, but we all make choices in our lives that we have to live with. I don't think that there is anything wrong at all with getting divorced if that's what needs to be done. No one should have to stay locked in an unhappy marriage just for the sake of saving a marriage.
Ann was very brave to post here and she handled the good and bad with eloquence and respect. She's taken some big steps by communicating with us, and more importantly, her husband.

pollinilove · Jul 6th, 2009, 11:29 AM

i think you need to do what ever makes you happy . you only get one life only one chance do what makes you happy no matter what others think . i wish you the best in what ever you do

LVChanelFanatic · Jul 6th, 2009, 11:49 AM

wow .. i just read ur post ... an it is identical to my situtaion , minus the kids. i got married at 25 as well .it's been 4 yrs now. i have no feelng for my husband . i met a wonderful man a few months back , he is the one. thank you for your post , it made me feel like i was not alone. that there is someone else out there going thru the same thing as me. feel free to PM me if u eveneed to talk . i know what u ar going thru , beleive me.

BagLadie · Jul 6th, 2009, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by vhdos

Charles telling posters to lighten up a bit? Usually you are the one, Charles, giving the honest, yet sometimes harsh, advice (which I typically appreciate, by the way).
For me, this whole thread wasn't about a marriage not working, cheating, etc. It was the warm and fuzzy responses from some of the posters that just rubbed me the wrong way. I can say that I commend Ann for being honest, but after reading through all of her posts, I can not honestly say, "I'm proud of you", etc.
Even though we realize that her husband was not a Saint through all of this, many of us do feel sorry for him. What about his life? As far as I'm concerned, he was deceived right from the beginning and has wasted all these years in a loveless marriage. I can only imagine what I would feel like if I found out that my DH never really loved me at all and then had an affair.
I think we can all agree that each of us deserves to be happy. It's unfortunate that things have worked out this way for Ann and her family, but we all make choices in our lives that we have to live with. I don't think that there is anything wrong at all with getting divorced if that's what needs to be done. No one should have to stay locked in an unhappy marriage just for the sake of saving a marriage.
Ann was very brave to post here and she handled the good and bad with eloquence and respect. She's taken some big steps by communicating with us, and more importantly, her husband.

I agree with all this. I really didn't expect to come here and have everyone say "good for you!" I knew this would be a difficult thread. As good as it feels to come clean - it's still hard to hold my head up and be proud of myself. I won't be at that point for a long, long time.

Honestly - it's good to hear all points of views and opinions. If someone on here thinks I am a terrible person - bring on that opinion! I am very vulnerable and raw right now - but need to hear all sides - I am very ok with that.

shazam · Jul 6th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Charles

Who cares what other people are doing in their relationships?

I would say anyone reading the Relationships & Family forum who isn't looking for input on their own personal situation.

Quote:

I also want to say that I definitely don't agree with Ann cheating, but that's in the past and she's done doing that. She's realized her mistakes and is trying to fix them. I'm sure what she feels can never come close to the crap you guys are giving her, so lighten up a bit. She knows she screwed up. No need to keep harping on it.

And we just have a different perception because up until the last few pages, it seemed to me like the cheating was being glossed over and romanticized to the point that BagLadie was discounting it from her role in the marriage and as a part of the upcoming divorce. I do agree, however, that at this point I think moving on and going through with the divorce seems like the best option in an overall heartbreaking situation (for everyone involved). You can't force yourself to love someone and you shouldn't have to fake a marriage, so at some point you have to say you gave it your best shot and try to find happiness elsewhere. I do think a lot of people give up on marriage way too easily these days, but BagLadie has been trying to find ways to make it work for years, at least until she met the other guy, and it just wasn't happening. I know everyone has different opinions on this, but as hard as a divorce will be on the kids, I think sticking with a loveless marriage is even worse for them. Some situations just don't have easy answers and I think the best that can happen now is for the divorce to be as amicable as possible which is why I was asking her to remember how awful this is for her husband, too, and to be compassionate even though she carries her own bitterness about how things have turned out.

BagLadie, have you gotten into thinking about the practical issues of the separation once you make the move? Such as whether you'll be moving out and where the kids will live? I would guess those would be the next steps in figuring things out.

Quote:

And this is why I encourage people to wait on marriage...even at 25. Your 20's are such a period of maturation, that's it's really impossible to know you're going to feel the same way about one person. I know, I know, at the time, it feels so right, but 10 years from now, it might feel the exact opposite. If you're truly meant to be together, then waiting a few more years won't matter.

And while I know there are good intentions behind this advice, it seems a little patronizing to me. Everyone is different and I think it really depends on the individuals involved. Some people are more mature in their 20s than others are in their 30s or even 40s. I agree that we all change as we go through life, but I don't think there's only one decade when that happens. I do think putting a few years into a relationship before walking down the aisle is a good idea at any age, but other than that if you truly love someone and are happy with them then I don't think you can put all kinds of restrictions on the relationship simply based on age. You just do the best you can to help your relationship evolve together through the years along with yourselves as individuals. Sure, someone at 25 will be different at 35, but even if that person waited to marry until 30 he/she's still likely to be different at 35. There's really no universal number or decade at which time it's appropriate for everyone to marry.

lorihmatthews · Jul 6th, 2009, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by mellecyn

^yes, great for her, but too late to have babies.....unfortunately we have a timer clock.

I don't want to get too off topic here but this is incorrect. Many of my friends have had children in their late 30s, and one of my closest friends had her 3rd child in May at age 39. Sometimes it takes more medical intervention, but it is routinely done.

divalicioust · Jul 6th, 2009, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by lorihmatthews

I don't want to get too off topic here but this is incorrect. Many of my friends have had children in their late 30s, and one of my closest friends had her 3rd child in May at age 39. Sometimes it takes more medical intervention, but it is routinely done.

You are correct, I had my daughter at 36, no complications at all.

amanda · Jul 6th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by divalicioust

You are correct, I had my daughter at 36, no complications at all.

My mom was the same age when my little brother was born, and the birth was WAY easier and had fewer complications than mine did a few years prior. I was 3 weeks early and took over a day's worth of labor on Christmas Eve - he was right on time and came so easily and quickly after contractions started that they didn't even have enough time to give my mom any painkillers at the hospital. So it's OT, but worth mentioning - women can have perfectly healthy pregnancies and births well into their late 30s, and no one should be settling in their marriage just because they're afraid that after 30 is too late for babies.

lorihmatthews · Jul 6th, 2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by amanda

So it's OT, but worth mentioning - women can have perfectly healthy pregnancies and births well into their late 30s, and no one should be settling in their marriage just because they're afraid that after 30 is too late for babies.

This is exactly what I was driving at. Thank you.

TopGirl · Jul 6th, 2009, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Charles

Just curious, why does this matter so much to people? Who cares what other people are doing in their relationships? To be honest, I think situations like Ann's are sad, and if were back in the 50's, she'd be treated like a leper, and have to stay in an unhappy marriage, just for the sake of keeping up appearances. People make mistakes, and relationships are no different. At least where we are in society, people can admit those mistakes, divorce and attempt to find someone else that they can last with. Now, I'm not advocating people to simply give up, but this working and working on a relationship...when does it end? When is it ok to admit it's not going to work out? Who gets to decide that? To me, when the relationship is more work than there's love, then something needs to happen, and one of those possibilities is a divorce.
Why is divorce such a negative term? Why are you a failure if you get one? To me, you're more of a failure if you stay in a loveless marriage, and really, no one can truly determine that, aside from the two people who are in it. Recognize it's not working, cut your loses and move on.
I also want to say that I definitely don't agree with Ann cheating, but that's in the past and she's done doing that. She's realized her mistakes and is trying to fix them. I'm sure what she feels can never come close to the crap you guys are giving her, so lighten up a bit. She knows she screwed up. No need to keep harping on it.
To address the idea of her not working for her marriage...uh, she's been married for 15 years. I think she gave it a good shot. It was doomed from the beginning, but again, we all make mistakes. Let's try to move past the lecturing cause she's past that. That's why a lot of people are being supportive here. It's over...now let's focus on helping her get through what's left.

And this is why I encourage people to wait on marriage...even at 25. Your 20's are such a period of maturation, that's it's really impossible to know you're going to feel the same way about one person. I know, I know, at the time, it feels so right, but 10 years from now, it might feel the exact opposite. If you're truly meant to be together, then waiting a few more years won't matter.

Again I have different views on what relationships for and obviously I am being unrealistic for wanting someone who knows what commitment actually means instead of constantly making excuses and rationalizing poor behavior.

She put the info out there so I have the right to relate it to the bigger picture and my situation right? or I am not allowed to to think about how I would react if someone did this to me?

As for the 50's an divorce being so liberating and the best thing since sliced bread, i completely disagree. Most divorces are nasty and caused by both partners behaving badly. And divorce being a choice/ option has caused behaviors to change and people to not even attempt to fix things. Human being act differently when given a plethora of choices.Divorce itself isn't a bad thing, some people have no business being married in the 1st place, hence why 50% of marriages fail. I think most people whould just admnit that they are selfish and have no business being married and have no idea how much work marriage entails., but i guess it's a lifestyle right?

also in the 50's people forget that marriages were much more though threw than those occuring these days. one was likely to get married if compatiable but now a days it seems like no thought actually goes into it. It's more like a big party to stroke ones ego and focus on you.

But a las I have opinions on what marriage and commitement should be, but it looks like I am one of the rare ones that think it's still important. these days RL's are like mobile phones, it doesn't work so throw them away, i mean why not right. :/

Charles · Jul 6th, 2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by vhdos

Charles telling posters to lighten up a bit? Usually you are the one, Charles, giving the honest, yet sometimes harsh, advice (which I typically appreciate, by the way).
For me, this whole thread wasn't about a marriage not working, cheating, etc. It was the warm and fuzzy responses from some of the posters that just rubbed me the wrong way. I can say that I commend Ann for being honest, but after reading through all of her posts, I can not honestly say, "I'm proud of you", etc.
Even though we realize that her husband was not a Saint through all of this, many of us do feel sorry for him. What about his life? As far as I'm concerned, he was deceived right from the beginning and has wasted all these years in a loveless marriage. I can only imagine what I would feel like if I found out that my DH never really loved me at all and then had an affair.

Well yeah, but if Ann was going through this currently, my comments would be different. My advice also is based on what the OP is looking for. She's looking to vent and help to move forward. At this point, if you read through the thread, she's admitted that she cheated, she feels terrible about it, and it's over. So again, no need to give her crap, at this point.

As for the warm fuzzies, my props were due to her realizing that she needs to make a change in her life and making that change. Sure, there will be people hurt, but other people will often not like your actions when it comes to making yourself happy, and a lot of times in life, you need to put you first no matter the consequences. That was my reasoning...and I totally understand your side as well.

Originally Posted by shazam

I would say anyone reading the Relationships & Family forum who isn't looking for input on their own personal situation.

Sorry, I meant this more as a general comment. In other words..why do people getting divorces really unravel the fabric of society. This talk that too many people don't want to work for their marriage and how it's eroding society. Is it really? If so, please point out examples (that's not to you..again, general comments)

Originally Posted by shazam

And while I know there are good intentions behind this advice, it seems a little patronizing to me. Everyone is different and I think it really depends on the individuals involved. Some people are more mature in their 20s than others are in their 30s or even 40s. I agree that we all change as we go through life, but I don't think there's only one decade when that happens. I do think putting a few years into a relationship before walking down the aisle is a good idea at any age, but other than that if you truly love someone and are happy with them then I don't think you can put all kinds of restrictions on the relationship simply based on age. You just do the best you can to help your relationship evolve together through the years along with yourselves as individuals. Sure, someone at 25 will be different at 35, but even if that person waited to marry until 30 he/she's still likely to be different at 35. There's really no universal number or decade at which time it's appropriate for everyone to marry.

It wasn't mean to be patronizing at all. However, you can't argue with the fact that your 20's lend quite a bit to maturation as far as the type of person you're going to grow into being. And sure, other decades deal with maturing, but the 20's is when most people get married, that's why I focused on those years.
As for the rest, I agree. People are happy in relationships at age 18 as well as age 40, however, I'm pretty sure that a relationship entered into at age 40 will last longer than one entered into when 18. When you're 40, you're more attune to what you really want from a person, and the warning signs when they don't have it. It's simply life experiences, and you typically can't earn that without having a few years under your belt. As always, there are exceptions.

TopGirl · Jul 6th, 2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by vhdos

Charles telling posters to lighten up a bit? Usually you are the one, Charles, giving the honest, yet sometimes harsh, advice (which I typically appreciate, by the way).
For me, this whole thread wasn't about a marriage not working, cheating, etc. It was the warm and fuzzy responses from some of the posters that just rubbed me the wrong way. I can say that I commend Ann for being honest, but after reading through all of her posts, I can not honestly say, "I'm proud of you", etc.
Even though we realize that her husband was not a Saint through all of this, many of us do feel sorry for him. What about his life? As far as I'm concerned, he was deceived right from the beginning and has wasted all these years in a loveless marriage. I can only imagine what I would feel like if I found out that my DH never really loved me at all and then had an affair.
I think we can all agree that each of us deserves to be happy. It's unfortunate that things have worked out this way for Ann and her family, but we all make choices in our lives that we have to live with. I don't think that there is anything wrong at all with getting divorced if that's what needs to be done. No one should have to stay locked in an unhappy marriage just for the sake of saving a marriage.
Ann was very brave to post here and she handled the good and bad with eloquence and respect. She's taken some big steps by communicating with us, and more importantly, her husband.

ITA , from my understanding the OP is a known , loved and popular posters. Opinions would have been different if someone else posted it? hmm maybe

Most of the responses are from an extremely selfish and self centered point of view: do you, fukk him, i mean it's your happiness that's important right? you go girl?

But it would be even more selfish to continue to let the hubby make a fool of himself while she has already checked out a long time ago.

Jahpson · Jul 6th, 2009, 04:29 PM

Hey Bagladie, just read your first post.

So sorry that your going through these changes, just know that I don't view you any differently because of it. None of us are perfect. I just hope that one day you find peace and declare that you are in a happy place in your life.

Folks being in unhappy marriages are not uncommon.

Charles · Jul 6th, 2009, 04:37 PM