**Have you or anyone close tried ECT? Opinions needed, emergency situation**

[karmenzsofia]

[Mods, I wasn't sure where to post this...feel free to move it to the appropriate subforum if this is not it.]

OK guys, I need opinions.

My cousin, who's like my sister and basically my best friend, has suffered from depression her whole life. The kind of depression that makes someone incapable of feeling joy about anything, that destroys any shred of self-esteem, that makes everything useless and hopeless and meaningless. I've lived with her, so I understand what she goes through.

She's tried meds and therapy, including group therapy, which helped....but not enough. Frankly, given her state of mind and the years of crap, I'm surprised she's still around. But she's been functioning enough to exist.

Lately, she's gotten worse, and now she's apparently reached a point in which she's truly, seriously considering ending her life--which she's been doing since we were pre-teens, but this time it looks like she's reached the end of the line, KWIM? She says she has no life, has lost everything, and can't see any reason to go on other than to prolong this endless suffering. And I honestly can't argue with that. There's no BS between us.

In one last attempt to, IDK, be able to say she tried everything, she contacted a therapist she's known for years, who knows her well and has always been the voice of wisdom and reason in her life, but who know lives in another state. He said that if she were under his care, she would be hospitalized, and he suggested she talk to her psychiatrist about ECT.

Ironically, a few months ago she looked into ECT (which is nothing like what used to be and what people have seen in movies) when trying to figure out what else she could, and she found out that it's impossible to predict if it will either work for her (as it has for many people,Carrie Fisher among them), do nothing, or make matters worse (which also happens...). She's afraid of the risks, which include mild to severe memory loss.

I want to help her, but all I can do is provide information (she's too depressed, unmotivated and afraid to research it as she started to do months ago) and emotional support.

So, I'm here asking for opinions of those who have had direct or indirect experience with ECT. I understand that some might not want to post about it, so if you feel comfortable talking about it privately, feel free to PM me. I figured some of you might have a relative or friend, someone close, or work in that environment and have some feedback about what you have experienced or observed.

Thanks for reading this far!

--KZ

[spoiled_brat]

Sorry to butt into your post since I have no valuable feedback... No, I haven't tried ECT nor do I know anyone who has but if I were in your cousin's situation, I would.

I believe that there is nothing worse than wanting to commit suicide. If it were between that and possibly getting worse, I'd take the risk of getting worse first, kwim?

Is there a possibility for her to travel out of state and see that therapist she knows?

[Irishgal]

I have been a psychologist for 21 yrs, half of that in practice and often did have patients who were so severely depressed they needed to be hospitalized.
For reasons they don't fully understand, for unrelenting, severe depression that is not responding to anything else, ECT does have some value. I did have a couple of patients who had it and got relief.
The ECT of the old days is not what they do today. Today, the technology is much better and the person is given their treatments on an outpatient basis. So while some people still think of ECT as barbaric it does seem to help a specific type of severe depression when nothing else will.
PM me if you need to .

[karmenzsofia]

Originally Posted by spoiled_brat

Sorry to butt into your post since I have no valuable feedback... No, I haven't tried ECT nor do I know anyone who has but if I were in your cousin's situation, I would. I believe that there is nothing worse than wanting to commit suicide. If it were between that and possibly getting worse, I'd take the risk of getting worse first, kwim? Is there a possibility for her to travel out of state and see that therapist she knows?

No need to apologize--I thank you for taking the time to comment.

She thought about going where he's at, but it looks like she needs more than therapy. But he's amazing, and she can call him any time. Yet, she's been avoiding calls...saying she doesn't want to burden anyone and "what for?...what difference can it make?" He's helped her A LOT throughout the years, knows her inside out, yet she struggled for months before calling him this weekend to let him know how messed up she is because she's feeling like she's past the point of cognitive/behavioral therapy, like she can't be helped. I think she was also afraid to hear the truth, which he always tells her with no sugar coating. She told me she didn't have to say much before he went straight to ECT and/or hospitalization, which he's never done before, noting it's time for radical measures.

[karmenzsofia]

Originally Posted by Irishgal

I have been a psychologist for 21 yrs, half of that in practice and often did have patients who were so severely depressed they needed to be hospitalized. For reasons they don't fully understand, for unrelenting, severe depression that is not responding to anything else, ECT does have some value. I did have a couple of patients who had it and got relief. The ECT of the old days is not what they do today. Today, the technology is much better and the person is given their treatments on an outpatient basis. So while some people still think of ECT as barbaric it does seem to help a specific type of severe depression when nothing else will. PM me if you need to .

Thank you for your post. She's aware of how different ECT is these days vs in the past because she's had to learn about the different treatment options. What she's really afraid of is that she'll end up worse, that it will damage her even more than she's now. She says that unlike meds, which you can stop taking if they don't work or the side effects are awful, once you do ECT, you can't go back. I'm not sure I fully understand that. Would the first (of what would be many) ECT session be enough to cross a point of no return? This is scary.

[domlee]

ECT can indeed help. It is usually a last resort treatment. Some side effects have been documented from the info I was told...such as memory loss, etc.

Since Irishgal is a psychologist, she'll be much more informed than I am. I only know of what I read up on, and witnessed as a loved one. But I can dig up more info for you as needed.

In fact, I'll PM you.

[couture_addict]

I wish I had something to contribute, but I really don't. The closest experience I've had with ECT is when my parents were looking into it for my sister as a treatment for severe epilepsy of all things (she's had profound metal retardation and epilepsy since she was 2 years old, and has several grand mal seizures a day - resulting in multiple injuries over the years).

They looked into it mainly out of desperation; her neurologist had suggested that maybe undergoing a regimen of ECT might serve as a "reset switch" of sorts. They ended up not going through with it due to her physical condition and a real lack of information on ECT treatments being used to treat epilepsy. This was back in the mid-90's.

I'm truly sorry to hear about your cousin's situation - she's very, very lucky to have someone that cares about her like you. I hope you find the information that you're looking for.

[karmenzsofia]

Originally Posted by domlee

ECT can indeed help. It is usually a last resort treatment. Some side effects have been documented from the info I was told...such as memory loss, etc. Since Irishgal is a psychologist, she'll be much more informed than I am. I only know of what I read up on, and witnessed as a loved one. But I can dig up more info for you as needed. In fact, I'll PM you.

Thank you.

[karmenzsofia]

Originally Posted by couture_addict

I wish I had something to contribute, but I really don't. The closest experience I've had with ECT is when my parents were looking into it for my sister as a treatment for severe epilepsy of all things (she's had profound metal retardation and epilepsy since she was 2 years old, and has several grand mal seizures a day - resulting in multiple injuries over the years). They looked into it mainly out of desperation; her neurologist had suggested that maybe undergoing a regimen of ECT might serve as a "reset switch" of sorts. They ended up not going through with it due to her physical condition and a real lack of information on ECT treatments being used to treat epilepsy. This was back in the mid-90's. I'm truly sorry to hear about your cousin's situation - she's very, very lucky to have someone that cares about her like you. I hope you find the information that you're looking for.

Sorry to hear about your sister. It's such a terrible condition to deal with every day.

The reset theory is what I read about, and I say theory because it seems no one truly understands how and/or why it works for depression. Thanks so much for your post.

[boxermom]

I'm so sorry about your cousin. Irishgal knows more about this field than anyone else here, IMO.

A friend of mine has been so deeply depressed that she has attempted suicide several times. It's the worst feeling to see someone you love be in that pit of despair. Her treatment now consists of meds, abstaining from alcohol, and spiritual guidance/therapy and she says she has accepted that she will always be depressed but she's no longer suicidal.

Your cousin will be in my prayers.

[dallas]

I don't know anything about this subject, but I pray that your dear cousin can get the help she needs and deserves. Thank goodness she has you by her side.

[karmenzsofia]

Originally Posted by boxermom

I'm so sorry about your cousin. Irishgal knows more about this field than anyone else here, IMO. A friend of mine has been so deeply depressed that she has attempted suicide several times. It's the worst feeling to see someone you love be in that pit of despair. Her treatment now consists of meds, abstaining from alcohol, and spiritual guidance/therapy and she says she has accepted that she will always be depressed but she's no longer suicidal. Your cousin will be in my prayers.

OMG, so sorry to hear about your friend. I'm familiar with the "pit of despair" myself, and it's a terrible place. It's horrific and people who've never been "there" can't possibly truly understand it. When you're just breathing to exist year after year, life truly has no meaning, so it seems logical and rational to end it. That's why I'm amazed that she hasn't done it...yet. She's so hopeless that I don't know what's stopping her. Maybe it's fear, IDK.

Thanks for your post and prayers, I'll pass them along.

[karmenzsofia]

Originally Posted by dallas

I don't know anything about this subject, but I pray that your dear cousin can get the help she needs and deserves. Thank goodness she has you by her side.

Thankz Dallas

[gga]

Originally Posted by Irishgal

I have been a psychologist for 21 yrs, half of that in practice and often did have patients who were so severely depressed they needed to be hospitalized. For reasons they don't fully understand, for unrelenting, severe depression that is not responding to anything else, ECT does have some value. I did have a couple of patients who had it and got relief. The ECT of the old days is not what they do today. Today, the technology is much better and the person is given their treatments on an outpatient basis. So while some people still think of ECT as barbaric it does seem to help a specific type of severe depression when nothing else will. PM me if you need to .

I'm so sorry your loved one is going through this, KZ.

I've administered ECT to several patients, and I've had patients under my care who have responded amazingly to it. There was one case that was becoming progressively more desperate, the patient's life was becoming more and more at risk. She responded on the 12th treatment. It was literally a night and day difference in this case. I'm not a psychiatrist, and my experience with ECT is limited to less than 100 patients, but I've never seen anything but varying levels of success with it as a last-ditch treatment for severe depression.

As IG says, it isn't the barbaric thing depicted in the movies at all. Every time I've ever been involved, it's been done under deep sedation, with an anesthesiologist's supervision. I don't hesitate to recommend it for severe, unrelenting depression.

The down side is the memory loss. I've never seen anyone escape without some loss of memory. Generally, at the end they're okay about trading memory for getting rid of the wolf eating at their hearts and minds constantly. I once had a recovered cancer patient tell me that if he had to choose between his cancer or his depression coming back, he'd take cancer. Depression is truly hell on the sufferer.

[karmenzsofia]

Thanks for the informative post, gga.

About the memory loss: I read somewhere that it can be mild but that it can also be severe to the point that people forget how to do their jobs. Can you imagine?