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gga · Oct 19th, 2009, 08:58 PM

that would be truly horrible, and no, I can't even begin to imagine it, KZ. I've never seen that level of memory loss. The memory loss I've seen has been minor and all from short term memory. Most patients I saw lost the morning of the ECT, not chunks from their long-term memories. Not that that's any consolation to the small percentage of patients who do lose important memories.

Irishgal · Oct 19th, 2009, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by gga

that would be truly horrible, and no, I can't even begin to imagine it, KZ. I've never seen that level of memory loss. The memory loss I've seen has been minor and all from short term memory. Most patients I saw lost the morning of the ECT, not chunks from their long-term memories. Not that that's any consolation to the small percentage of patients who do lose important memories.

I agree. I have never heard of anyone having that profound memory loss, just short term memory. And I recall a patient saying "I would rather forget what I had for breakfast than be wishing myself dead any day of the week".

CCfor C · Oct 19th, 2009, 09:56 PM

I have read articles about people that have done this and it can be a last resort method for some. I personally think that if the option is ending her life or trying this, it might make sense to do research and talk to people and see if this could be a good option for her. I can't imagine living w/ the pain of severe depression. I hope your cousin finds some peace, Karmen.

karmenzsofia · Oct 19th, 2009, 10:23 PM

gga, Irishgal: Thanks for your feedback on the memory loss issue. That sounded so extreme to me...I just can't imagine it.

CC4C: Thanks for your post. I just read an article that states ECT results span from "life-changing" or "life saving" to "damaged for life." No wonder there's so much controversy about it.

My cousin will talk to her doctor Wednesday. She has no clue if ECT is something he's in favor or against using nor if he would prescribe it for her. Plus there's all this protocol to follow, and she doesn't even know if her insurance will cover it. She doesn't want to be hospitalized kuz, among other reasons, she doesn't want to completely surrender and let others call all the shots (she has been very active in managing her condition). Apparently, ECT can be done on an outpatient basis as well as inpatient, depending on a bunch of variables...not sure how that works. I hope she can get some answers on Wednesday and this doctor doesn't blow her off.

schadenfreude · Oct 19th, 2009, 10:51 PM

gga - so fascinating. The whole topic is just fascinating. Can you recommend any professional-level books or literature about ECT? How do you "dose" it? As a physician myself, the whole concept blows my mind. As a pathologist, I would imagine there would be no microscopic changes, long term - which makes the whole thing even more interesting. (My B.S. is in psych, and my original career goal was to obtain a PsyD, so my interest is genuine.)

I had a friend whose sister got ECT years ago - in the 1960s, I think. From what I recall, she is able to live and function normally.

materialgurl · Oct 19th, 2009, 11:14 PM

I work as a nurse in psychiatry.. so I've seen multiple patients go through ECT with a good outcome.

You're right, ECT is not what it used to be or what people imagine. It is not inhumane like most people think... I've seen ECT being done, and it is done in a very respectful environment, NOT against the patient's will.

ECT is often the last option, so if med trails has not worked for your cousin, she should speak to her treating psychiatrist about this. I personally believe in ECT, if I had depression I would even opt for ECT instead of medications only because I know all the unpleasant side effects that come with antidepressants. For someone with severe depression (like you described), it may take up to 10 ECTs and likely some maintenance ECT as well (ie. once a week, once every 2 weeks type thing).

A drawback to ECT is that she will feel VERY tired the entire day after ECT and will be in bed... plus short term memory loss. And when I say short term... it's very short time... my patients would often forget that I've given them medications. Anyway, I don't think she has anything to lose, it is def worth a try!

Good luck with everything! PM me with any questions =)

underthesky · Oct 20th, 2009, 01:57 AM

KZ, I am very very sorry that your cousin in this situation. I can't constribute anything but always know that you and your cousin are in my prayers. Stay strong for yourself and her. I believe there are many ladies here will be able to help you with detail informations and guidance.

karmenzsofia · Oct 20th, 2009, 02:39 AM

schadenfreude: There's a lot--tons--of detailed info on the Internet that I'm sure you would love to devour. I've been reading about it today, and it's very interesting, fascinating actually.

materiagurl: Thanks so much for the info. It helps.

UTS: Thank you!

littlerock · Oct 20th, 2009, 02:54 PM

Karm- So sorry to hear about this situation. I truly hope that there is alight at the end of this tunnel. If it were me, I'd want to try anything possible before giving up completely. Good luck. Love you

On a side not regarding the memory loss, if all you have are bad memories full of depression, is it so bad to have a little short term memory loss? Maybe you will forget that you are so depressed? IDK..

karmenzsofia · Oct 20th, 2009, 03:09 PM

Hey LR! Good to see you.

You know? I thought about that, but apparently the memory loss is mostly short-term, that is, memories of recent events, thoughts or feelings right before the treatments. So the long-term memories where all the baggage and trauma dwell stay intact. Otherwise, hek, I'll be the first one to volunteer! It would be great if one could erase the crap and keep the good stuff. Too good to be true.

I'm very curious about what the doctor will say...

gga · Oct 20th, 2009, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by schadenfreude

gga - so fascinating. The whole topic is just fascinating. Can you recommend any professional-level books or literature about ECT? How do you "dose" it? As a physician myself, the whole concept blows my mind. As a pathologist, I would imagine there would be no microscopic changes, long term - which makes the whole thing even more interesting. (My B.S. is in psych, and my original career goal was to obtain a PsyD, so my interest is genuine.)

I had a friend whose sister got ECT years ago - in the 1960s, I think. From what I recall, she is able to live and function normally.

When I took care of these patients, it was as an anesthesiologist, not a psychiatrist. Because of the way the series would be run, I would end up sedating them for all or almost all of the procedures, so I got to see the progression, and take away clinical impressions. If you're looking for a psychiatrist's rec on professional literature, I would not be your girl. Sorry.

But I agree, it's fascinating stuff. It was really interesting to watch the patients progress from ECT #1 to the end. More than once I saw changes that seemed nothing short of miracles.

Hally · Oct 20th, 2009, 03:15 PM

I wish it worked like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Living with that kind of depression is soul destroying and I wouldn't rule it out.

karmenzsofia · Oct 20th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by gga

When I took care of these patients, it was as an anesthesiologist, not a psychiatrist. Because of the way the series would be run, I would end up sedating them for all or almost all of the procedures, so I got to see the progression, and take away clinical impressions. If you're looking for a psychiatrist's rec on professional literature, I would not be your girl. Sorry.

But I agree, it's fascinating stuff. It was really interesting to watch the patients progress from ECT #1 to the end. More than once I saw changes that seemed nothing short of miracles.

Thanks again for your input, gga.

gga · Oct 20th, 2009, 04:23 PM

You're welcome, KZ. I'm happy to help if I can.

boxermom · Oct 20th, 2009, 07:37 PM

I'm so impressed and grateful for the collective knowledge and experience here. Doctors, psychologists, psychiatric nurses..........and how willing people are to share anything that may help another.

Oct 19th, 2009, 08:58 PM	#16
gga Dr. Destructo Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,210	that would be truly horrible, and no, I can't even begin to imagine it, KZ. I've never seen that level of memory loss. The memory loss I've seen has been minor and all from short term memory. Most patients I saw lost the morning of the ECT, not chunks from their long-term memories. Not that that's any consolation to the small percentage of patients who do lose important memories.
gga Dr. Destructo Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,210

Oct 19th, 2009, 09:56 PM	#18
CCfor C Gobble gobble! Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,317	I have read articles about people that have done this and it can be a last resort method for some. I personally think that if the option is ending her life or trying this, it might make sense to do research and talk to people and see if this could be a good option for her. I can't imagine living w/ the pain of severe depression. I hope your cousin finds some peace, Karmen.
CCfor C Gobble gobble! Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,317	__________________ "We have met the enemy and he is us"...Pogo

Oct 19th, 2009, 10:23 PM	#19
karmenzsofia OP Life is Plan Z Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Tarot Card Posts: 14,888	gga, Irishgal: Thanks for your feedback on the memory loss issue. That sounded so extreme to me...I just can't imagine it. CC4C: Thanks for your post. I just read an article that states ECT results span from "life-changing" or "life saving" to "damaged for life." No wonder there's so much controversy about it. My cousin will talk to her doctor Wednesday. She has no clue if ECT is something he's in favor or against using nor if he would prescribe it for her. Plus there's all this protocol to follow, and she doesn't even know if her insurance will cover it. She doesn't want to be hospitalized kuz, among other reasons, she doesn't want to completely surrender and let others call all the shots (she has been very active in managing her condition). Apparently, ECT can be done on an outpatient basis as well as inpatient, depending on a bunch of variables...not sure how that works. I hope she can get some answers on Wednesday and this doctor doesn't blow her off.
	__________________ Satisfied but wishing 4 a WTM Mini and an AP ~~* Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Or, more importantly, is it funny?

Oct 19th, 2009, 10:51 PM	#20
schadenfreude yes please Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,575	gga - so fascinating. The whole topic is just fascinating. Can you recommend any professional-level books or literature about ECT? How do you "dose" it? As a physician myself, the whole concept blows my mind. As a pathologist, I would imagine there would be no microscopic changes, long term - which makes the whole thing even more interesting. (My B.S. is in psych, and my original career goal was to obtain a PsyD, so my interest is genuine.) I had a friend whose sister got ECT years ago - in the 1960s, I think. From what I recall, she is able to live and function normally.
schadenfreude yes please Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,575	__________________ Desperately seeking CL Tigresse in leopard, size 39.5 or 40. PM me if you come across some!

Oct 19th, 2009, 11:14 PM	#21
materialgurl in a material world Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 458	I work as a nurse in psychiatry.. so I've seen multiple patients go through ECT with a good outcome. You're right, ECT is not what it used to be or what people imagine. It is not inhumane like most people think... I've seen ECT being done, and it is done in a very respectful environment, NOT against the patient's will. ECT is often the last option, so if med trails has not worked for your cousin, she should speak to her treating psychiatrist about this. I personally believe in ECT, if I had depression I would even opt for ECT instead of medications only because I know all the unpleasant side effects that come with antidepressants. For someone with severe depression (like you described), it may take up to 10 ECTs and likely some maintenance ECT as well (ie. once a week, once every 2 weeks type thing). A drawback to ECT is that she will feel VERY tired the entire day after ECT and will be in bed... plus short term memory loss. And when I say short term... it's very short time... my patients would often forget that I've given them medications. Anyway, I don't think she has anything to lose, it is def worth a try! Good luck with everything! PM me with any questions =)
	__________________ Wishlist: [x] Chanel white jumbo Classic cavier flap with s/h [x] Chanel long lamb leather Classic wallet [x] Gucci medium Pelham shoulder bag [x] Louis Vuitton mini lin Speedy [x] Balenciaga black part-time [ ] Chanel black half moon cavier WOC [ ] Louis Vuitton Manhatten GM [ ] Hermes Birkin ultimate dream bag! hopefully by age 30 Last edited by materialgurl; Oct 19th, 2009 at 11:18 PM.

Oct 20th, 2009, 01:57 AM	#22
underthesky Halloween everyone? Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Between Asia & Europe Posts: 370	KZ, I am very very sorry that your cousin in this situation. I can't constribute anything but always know that you and your cousin are in my prayers. Stay strong for yourself and her. I believe there are many ladies here will be able to help you with detail informations and guidance.

Oct 20th, 2009, 02:39 AM	#23
karmenzsofia OP Life is Plan Z Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Tarot Card Posts: 14,888	schadenfreude: There's a lot--tons--of detailed info on the Internet that I'm sure you would love to devour. I've been reading about it today, and it's very interesting, fascinating actually. materiagurl: Thanks so much for the info. It helps. UTS: Thank you!
	__________________ Satisfied but wishing 4 a WTM Mini and an AP ~~* Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Or, more importantly, is it funny?

Oct 20th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#24
littlerock RM & Treesje Mod Joined: Apr 2007 Location: East Coast Posts: 7,933	Karm- So sorry to hear about this situation. I truly hope that there is alight at the end of this tunnel. If it were me, I'd want to try anything possible before giving up completely. Good luck. Love you On a side not regarding the memory loss, if all you have are bad memories full of depression, is it so bad to have a little short term memory loss? Maybe you will forget that you are so depressed? IDK..
	__________________

Oct 20th, 2009, 03:09 PM	#25
karmenzsofia OP Life is Plan Z Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Tarot Card Posts: 14,888	Hey LR! Good to see you. You know? I thought about that, but apparently the memory loss is mostly short-term, that is, memories of recent events, thoughts or feelings right before the treatments. So the long-term memories where all the baggage and trauma dwell stay intact. Otherwise, hek, I'll be the first one to volunteer! It would be great if one could erase the crap and keep the good stuff. Too good to be true. I'm very curious about what the doctor will say...
	__________________ Satisfied but wishing 4 a WTM Mini and an AP ~~* Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Or, more importantly, is it funny?

Oct 20th, 2009, 03:15 PM	#27
Hally Member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 375	I wish it worked like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Living with that kind of depression is soul destroying and I wouldn't rule it out.
Hally Member Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 375	__________________

Oct 20th, 2009, 04:23 PM	#29
gga Dr. Destructo Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,210	You're welcome, KZ. I'm happy to help if I can.
gga Dr. Destructo Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,210

Oct 20th, 2009, 07:37 PM	#30
boxermom Member Joined: Aug 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13,685	I'm so impressed and grateful for the collective knowledge and experience here. Doctors, psychologists, psychiatric nurses..........and how willing people are to share anything that may help another.

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