Dealing with this couple . . . ranty ranty

redredshoes · Jun 6th, 2008, 06:36 AM

Apologies in advance that this is so long . . . It may be so long that no one reads it, but I am just posting to get it off my chest because I am so bad at this and so frustrated thinking about it I woke up and can't go back to sleep

. I feel better just knowing my post is floating around in the vicinity of good advice

So, I feel like the dynamic of a couple is largely none of my beeswax, but in a semi(un)professional context I am getting very frustrated with a controlling husband machoing it up for his wife. I tutor as a side job, and in this case I responded to an ad that it turns out this guy posted on his wife's behalf. I have dealt with guys trying to make a show of overprotectiveness/hardassiness before (e.g., trying to sublet for 1 mo from a woman whose boyfriend interrogated me for the better part of an hour and demanded everything short of a urine sample), but you don't always know what you are getting into.

Anyway, basically he is one of those guys who has decided his wife is not capable of her own business dealings and is going to step in and flex his guns and do the money side of things for her. I am pretty bad at negotiating (my own problem, but I don't get my bf to do it for me!), and long and short when I went to meet her he stuck around for the money bit and I am working for about 20% less than we had initially discussed and about 60% of my normal rate (I had already offered a huge discount because I am still trying to get on my feet in a new city).

The agreement we came to was that if they want a deal, they meet me at a place that is convenient for me. Why anyone would want to bother with the price of gas and an SUV is beyond me. Well, in the next breath while talking about possible meeting places I stupidly mention that my bf works midway between us and I pick him up anyway. THEN even more stupidly, I agree to meet there at a time that is nowhere near when he gets off work!

My own fault, but when I meet my student tomorrow, I want to tell her it's not working out for me and here is the new time and place. As we discussed it, they are meeting me at my convenience in order to pay me less. The specifics were a tentative arrangement for the first few meetings. But given we talked about one right after the other and the husband's personality, I have the feeling he is going to really push against it. He has already seen that I am not a strong negotiator.

The woman herself is very nice, but her husband clearly wears the pants. It also turns out she is pregnant, although she's not yet showing, so hubby carries her books in and out of our meeting place. Cynically I feel like this is part excuse to be there for any logistical talks. He is pushy to begin with and already seems to regret the arrangement we have -- yesterday he offered me an extra $3 if I would go to their house. They live cross town and we all know enough about GAS. That doesn't cover it, and besides his whole shtik to begin with was that they just couldn't afford to pay me a dollar more. Her school is actually subsidizing most of it, so they are barely paying anything to begin with (AND I had to send in a stack of documentation and will have to fill out time sheets, have taxes withheld, and wait a month for my first paycheck).

The woman would readily agree to my terms, but the husband will not want to give. They both have completely flexible schedules, as they have already told me many times. So the downside for the husband is that he would have to drive an extra 10 or 15 minutes. As far as I know, he actually does not have anything to do for the summer.

The downside for me in the current situation is that I absolutely have to drive my bf to work obscenely early in the a.m. and that he cannot use the car to take a break, run errands, or get off early. We are talking waking up around 2:30 AM and bf usually works 12-14 hours, so there are days when he is just tired out of his mind or really wants to come home early because we have had very little time together.

. . . What is a polite, firm way to tell these people I want to work something else out? Should I bring up the personal stuff, leave it, give my real reasons, or pretend it's totally not an option? Maybe if I say my bf REFUSES to let me have the car EVER the husband will understand from one controlling d*** to another? If he just says NO, should I also say NO? I doubt they are able to find a replacement at this point, and I don't think I am really putting them out.

Obviously, I was aware of the negatives for me going into this. But I guess if I were being paid decently, I would feel like things were picking up and with a couple more students I could get some ratty old car to see me through the year.

I don't absolutely need the money, but I don't want to rely on my bf, and while we are comfortable he does pass up a lot of things. He might be upset if I just let the job go (if it came down to an unlikely impasse), but on the other hand the transportation/scheduling issue is also stress we don't need. I will talk to him about this on the weekend but can't today because he crashed right after work.

It is the middle of the night for me, and I know I am in real mountains-out-of-molehills mood. I am just upset about this because I am at a point where I have been rethinking a lot of major things, so this seems to signify more than the literal. I need to establish myself in a new place, so I am trying to do what I know, but I also can't be a knockabout all through my 20s. I really want to get out of the freelancing business, especially since, as you can see, I don't have the personality for it (although I haven't had real issues, just stress, with the usual parents/kids or clients in my other (currently inactive) side job).

TIA for any thoughts, and if you managed to read through my post! I think I can go to bed now . . .

barcreperie · Jun 6th, 2008, 06:50 AM

Perhaps you could talk to your student during the tutoring session, when her husband isn't around. Just tell her that the arrangement isn't working out for you and let her know what the new meeting place/time is, then let her deal with her husband later. Before you do this though, you need to have a specific place and time in mind. In case it doesn't work out for them, have a range of times that you can conveniently do the tutoring, but don't vary outside that range to accomodate them. Be firm, and if the husband does become part of the negotiation, just keep repeating what works for you. If you already have a firm idea of what you need, you'll be less likely to be intimidated by the husband. Don't let him bully you. This is a good life experience - even if you feel very uncomfortable with this type situation, every time you deal with it you'll become a little more confident and little more capable.

redredshoes · Jun 6th, 2008, 09:36 AM

Thanks for your advice and encouragement, barcreperie. I will definitely try -- we have a time that works well for me, so it's just the place. I've realized also I try too hard to be diplomatic by giving alternate options when they ask for them, and then just trying to make those options sound unattractive, but that obviously doesn't work. So I will do my best to stick to my guns.

merika · Jun 6th, 2008, 10:44 AM

I've tutored before and there are times when I've just had to walk away. There are people who haggle at the slightest sign of your trying to accommodate their needs. The best approach for me is to be extremely fixed in what I negotiate at the very beginning, before I even meet - price, time and place.

I've tutored high school and college students with extremely pushy and demanding parents, so I can understand what you are going through. I can also understand you and your bf wanting to spend time together - I have a young son and no way would I let my tutoring get in the way of my time with him.

Sometimes I do negotiate, but it is only if I have known the person for a while and know their personality well enough. Otherwise it is strictly business. I've tutored for free, but that's solely on my judgment of the situation.

Be very firm about the time and place you are willing to meet, and be prepared to walk away if it doesn't work out. Ill-will affects the student-tutor dynamic a lot so it's best to have firm rules in the beginning, much as you would if you were teaching a classroom.

redredshoes · Jun 6th, 2008, 11:21 AM

Thanks for the good advice, merika.

Do you think there is a time to be direct, e.g., "I agreed to be flexible on a rate in exchange for your flexibility on location, please honor that"? I tend to avoid all conflict, including negotiation, so I'm not sure where the happy medium is between standing down and screaming, "Back off!!"

I actually have an issue with the wife, too, as a student . . . She is studying M.Ed. but her goal at this point is to finish her schooling in time for baby. So I understand that, but she is completely focused on passing. Her questions are not directed at understanding but at leading me to tell her word for word what to write down. So far, I explain everything in detail while she takes verbatim notes to copy onto her own homework later. I think in her mind she believes because she understands the exercise after I have worked through it that it is her work. Since this is a correspondence course, it's almost like I am taking the course for her -- except that she has exams I cannot see her passing.

I have been gently suggesting she attempt exercises on her own and delaying explanations of material I suspect she could grasp herself. But what else can I do? I can't refuse to explain something she swears up and down she just can't get. And because she is an adult and not a child, I can't very well overrule her if she doesn't want to review or practice or lecture her without offending her. I just feel that I am investing a lot of time in tutoring her and want to have some results to show for it.

merika · Jun 6th, 2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redredshoes

Thanks for the good advice, merika.

Do you think there is a time to be direct, e.g., "I agreed to be flexible on a rate in exchange for your flexibility on location, please honor that"? I tend to avoid all conflict, including negotiation, so I'm not sure where the happy medium is between standing down and screaming, "Back off!!"

I actually have an issue with the wife, too, as a student . . . She is studying M.Ed. but her goal at this point is to finish her schooling in time for baby. So I understand that, but she is completely focused on passing. Her questions are not directed at understanding but at leading me to tell her word for word what to write down. So far, I explain everything in detail while she takes verbatim notes to copy onto her own homework later. I think in her mind she believes because she understands the exercise after I have worked through it that it is her work. Since this is a correspondence course, it's almost like I am taking the course for her -- except that she has exams I cannot see her passing.

I have been gently suggesting she attempt exercises on her own and delaying explanations of material I suspect she could grasp herself. But what else can I do? I can't refuse to explain something she swears up and down she just can't get. And because she is an adult and not a child, I can't very well overrule her if she doesn't want to review or practice or lecture her without offending her. I just feel that I am investing a lot of time in tutoring her and want to have some results to show for it.

I'll answer your bolded part first: Yes, you'll have to be direct. You have to say that you prefer your location to be convenient to you and it is not up for negotiation since by providing a discounted fee you were making concessions to them already. You'll have to be prepared to say something like "Maybe it is best if you found someone else who accommodated your needs more..." if things get too bad. That's usually quite enough to get most students to think hard about what they really want because it's difficult to find or change tutors especially in the middle of a course.

Unfortunately the way your student behaves is the way a LOT of students behave in their undergraduate years. However, one would expect a little more importance to understanding the concepts in a Master's student!! I guess in the end some people just do their degrees/courses in the hope of getting better jobs than to "use" what they learned. It's hard for me when students treat me like a walking solutions manual but I've got used to it.

redredshoes · Jun 6th, 2008, 12:05 PM

Thanks again

Quote:

Originally Posted by merika

Unfortunately the way your student behaves is the way a LOT of students behave in their undergraduate years. However, one would expect a little more importance to understanding the concepts in a Master's student!! I guess in the end some people just do their degrees/courses in the hope of getting better jobs than to "use" what they learned. It's hard for me when students treat me like a walking solutions manual but I've got used to it.

I know exactly what you mean! I would be used to this, roll my eyes, and give my best mommy smackdown to a high schooler, but she is studying to teach kids what I am teaching her now . . . gah. I understand that she is in a hurry to get on with her personal life, but I imagine this will become difficult for her in her job as well.

Jun 6th, 2008, 06:36 AM	#1
redredshoes Member	Dealing with this couple . . . ranty ranty Apologies in advance that this is so long . . . It may be so long that no one reads it, but I am just posting to get it off my chest because I am so bad at this and so frustrated thinking about it I woke up and can't go back to sleep . I feel better just knowing my post is floating around in the vicinity of good advice So, I feel like the dynamic of a couple is largely none of my beeswax, but in a semi(un)professional context I am getting very frustrated with a controlling husband machoing it up for his wife. I tutor as a side job, and in this case I responded to an ad that it turns out this guy posted on his wife's behalf. I have dealt with guys trying to make a show of overprotectiveness/hardassiness before (e.g., trying to sublet for 1 mo from a woman whose boyfriend interrogated me for the better part of an hour and demanded everything short of a urine sample), but you don't always know what you are getting into. Anyway, basically he is one of those guys who has decided his wife is not capable of her own business dealings and is going to step in and flex his guns and do the money side of things for her. I am pretty bad at negotiating (my own problem, but I don't get my bf to do it for me!), and long and short when I went to meet her he stuck around for the money bit and I am working for about 20% less than we had initially discussed and about 60% of my normal rate (I had already offered a huge discount because I am still trying to get on my feet in a new city). The agreement we came to was that if they want a deal, they meet me at a place that is convenient for me. Why anyone would want to bother with the price of gas and an SUV is beyond me. Well, in the next breath while talking about possible meeting places I stupidly mention that my bf works midway between us and I pick him up anyway. THEN even more stupidly, I agree to meet there at a time that is nowhere near when he gets off work! My own fault, but when I meet my student tomorrow, I want to tell her it's not working out for me and here is the new time and place. As we discussed it, they are meeting me at my convenience in order to pay me less. The specifics were a tentative arrangement for the first few meetings. But given we talked about one right after the other and the husband's personality, I have the feeling he is going to really push against it. He has already seen that I am not a strong negotiator. The woman herself is very nice, but her husband clearly wears the pants. It also turns out she is pregnant, although she's not yet showing, so hubby carries her books in and out of our meeting place. Cynically I feel like this is part excuse to be there for any logistical talks. He is pushy to begin with and already seems to regret the arrangement we have -- yesterday he offered me an extra $3 if I would go to their house. They live cross town and we all know enough about GAS. That doesn't cover it, and besides his whole shtik to begin with was that they just couldn't afford to pay me a dollar more. Her school is actually subsidizing most of it, so they are barely paying anything to begin with (AND I had to send in a stack of documentation and will have to fill out time sheets, have taxes withheld, and wait a month for my first paycheck). The woman would readily agree to my terms, but the husband will not want to give. They both have completely flexible schedules, as they have already told me many times. So the downside for the husband is that he would have to drive an extra 10 or 15 minutes. As far as I know, he actually does not have anything to do for the summer. The downside for me in the current situation is that I absolutely have to drive my bf to work obscenely early in the a.m. and that he cannot use the car to take a break, run errands, or get off early. We are talking waking up around 2:30 AM and bf usually works 12-14 hours, so there are days when he is just tired out of his mind or really wants to come home early because we have had very little time together. . . . What is a polite, firm way to tell these people I want to work something else out? Should I bring up the personal stuff, leave it, give my real reasons, or pretend it's totally not an option? Maybe if I say my bf REFUSES to let me have the car EVER the husband will understand from one controlling d*** to another? If he just says NO, should I also say NO? I doubt they are able to find a replacement at this point, and I don't think I am really putting them out. Obviously, I was aware of the negatives for me going into this. But I guess if I were being paid decently, I would feel like things were picking up and with a couple more students I could get some ratty old car to see me through the year. I don't absolutely need the money, but I don't want to rely on my bf, and while we are comfortable he does pass up a lot of things. He might be upset if I just let the job go (if it came down to an unlikely impasse), but on the other hand the transportation/scheduling issue is also stress we don't need. I will talk to him about this on the weekend but can't today because he crashed right after work. It is the middle of the night for me, and I know I am in real mountains-out-of-molehills mood. I am just upset about this because I am at a point where I have been rethinking a lot of major things, so this seems to signify more than the literal. I need to establish myself in a new place, so I am trying to do what I know, but I also can't be a knockabout all through my 20s. I really want to get out of the freelancing business, especially since, as you can see, I don't have the personality for it (although I haven't had real issues, just stress, with the usual parents/kids or clients in my other (currently inactive) side job). TIA for any thoughts, and if you managed to read through my post! I think I can go to bed now . . . Last edited by redredshoes; Jun 6th, 2008 at 06:47 AM.

Jun 6th, 2008, 10:44 AM	#4
merika Just me Location: In front of a computer	I've tutored before and there are times when I've just had to walk away. There are people who haggle at the slightest sign of your trying to accommodate their needs. The best approach for me is to be extremely fixed in what I negotiate at the very beginning, before I even meet - price, time and place. I've tutored high school and college students with extremely pushy and demanding parents, so I can understand what you are going through. I can also understand you and your bf wanting to spend time together - I have a young son and no way would I let my tutoring get in the way of my time with him. Sometimes I do negotiate, but it is only if I have known the person for a while and know their personality well enough. Otherwise it is strictly business. I've tutored for free, but that's solely on my judgment of the situation. Be very firm about the time and place you are willing to meet, and be prepared to walk away if it doesn't work out. Ill-will affects the student-tutor dynamic a lot so it's best to have firm rules in the beginning, much as you would if you were teaching a classroom. __________________ I will also gladly authenticate your chocolates for you.

Jun 6th, 2008, 06:50 AM	#2
barcreperie Member	Perhaps you could talk to your student during the tutoring session, when her husband isn't around. Just tell her that the arrangement isn't working out for you and let her know what the new meeting place/time is, then let her deal with her husband later. Before you do this though, you need to have a specific place and time in mind. In case it doesn't work out for them, have a range of times that you can conveniently do the tutoring, but don't vary outside that range to accomodate them. Be firm, and if the husband does become part of the negotiation, just keep repeating what works for you. If you already have a firm idea of what you need, you'll be less likely to be intimidated by the husband. Don't let him bully you. This is a good life experience - even if you feel very uncomfortable with this type situation, every time you deal with it you'll become a little more confident and little more capable.

Jun 6th, 2008, 09:36 AM	#3
redredshoes Member	Thanks for your advice and encouragement, barcreperie. I will definitely try -- we have a time that works well for me, so it's just the place. I've realized also I try too hard to be diplomatic by giving alternate options when they ask for them, and then just trying to make those options sound unattractive, but that obviously doesn't work. So I will do my best to stick to my guns.

Jun 6th, 2008, 11:21 AM	#5
redredshoes Member	Thanks for the good advice, merika. Do you think there is a time to be direct, e.g., "I agreed to be flexible on a rate in exchange for your flexibility on location, please honor that"? I tend to avoid all conflict, including negotiation, so I'm not sure where the happy medium is between standing down and screaming, "Back off!!" I actually have an issue with the wife, too, as a student . . . She is studying M.Ed. but her goal at this point is to finish her schooling in time for baby. So I understand that, but she is completely focused on passing. Her questions are not directed at understanding but at leading me to tell her word for word what to write down. So far, I explain everything in detail while she takes verbatim notes to copy onto her own homework later. I think in her mind she believes because she understands the exercise after I have worked through it that it is her work. Since this is a correspondence course, it's almost like I am taking the course for her -- except that she has exams I cannot see her passing. I have been gently suggesting she attempt exercises on her own and delaying explanations of material I suspect she could grasp herself. But what else can I do? I can't refuse to explain something she swears up and down she just can't get. And because she is an adult and not a child, I can't very well overrule her if she doesn't want to review or practice or lecture her without offending her. I just feel that I am investing a lot of time in tutoring her and want to have some results to show for it.