what would you do??

[omgsweet]

The funny thing about this thread is that we are all agreeing with each other...yet still going on and on about it.

1. It is not ok for the employee to speak to any child in a rude manner.
2. It is ok for the employee to kindly ask the child to stop if the child's parents are not around.
2a. If the child's parent's are around, it would be preferable for them to speak kindly to the parent.
C. (My three key isn't working at the moment due to a chocolate milk incident.) It might not be a good idea to let the children play with balls in the store anymore.

[ChristyR143]

^ LOL! So true!!

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by omgsweet

The funny thing about this thread is that we are all agreeing with each other...yet still going on and on about it. 1. It is not ok for the employee to speak to any child in a rude manner. 2. It is ok for the employee to kindly ask the child to stop if the child's parents are not around. 2a. If the child's parent's are around, it would be preferable for them to speak kindly to the parent. C. (My three key isn't working at the moment due to a chocolate milk incident.) It might not be a good idea to let the children play with balls in the store anymore.

I think we still have new posts because from the OP´s posts it seems that she would have a problem with this situation even if the employees were polite and spoke to her, not the kids. As she says

"if i think they are doing something wrong or misbehaving i tell them to stop."

and a lot of people here think that it is not just up to her to decide if her kid is doing something wrong if its in a public place.

If I misinterpret OP´s words, I apologize.

[missbanff]

I really tried to put some thought into this before I responded, as this can be a heated subject.

For those of you not familiar with my posts, I am a parent to 2 kids.

Before I became a SAHM, I worked for many years in retail, on both sides (corporate and store levels).

It's clear that there are two sides to this, and neither will ever agree. For the most part, what I've seen here is a civilized dicussion, and that's great.

OP-first, I'm pretty confident that those disagreeing with you here would not say you're a "bad mom" for letting your kids bounce the balls in the store. The fact that you've shown you want to raise your kids with manners, etc, speaks volumes. It shows you give a damn, and in this day and age, that says alot. However, you (and me, and everyone else who is a parent) have to understand that parenting is extremely subjective.

Being that you were the only one there that day when the employee addressed your kids, and not you- we are relying on your opinion that the employee was rude. It's quite possible that they were; most parents, though will be quick to jump when another adult addresses our kids and label that interaction as "rude". Maybe the employee didn't realize their tone with the child; you stated that they "got right in his face". It's pretty well known that you should be at the child's level when addressing them, could that be the case? Perhaps that was their intention? Just asking....again, of course I was not there and did not hear and see what the employee said. And yes, it is their job to clean up after people in the store-but I will confess, some days you just get sick of it. Likewise with people who let their kids run amuck, unsupervised, in between racks, knocking stuff over, etc. We are, after all, human. I'd be lying if I said I never did that. Fortunately I was able to keep it in check. And no, it's not an excuse for a store employee to be nasty, but it does happen. I myself try to keep that in mind.

What you (I'm using "you" in the general sense) have to realize is that a pit of bouncing balls in a store is not the same as if it were on a playground. You can use the argument that "the store should expect kids to touch them"-but not really. Would you say that a grocery store should expect kids to sample all the candy that are in the bulk bin, too? Of course not. Your kid may be guilty of swiping a piece (like I did when I was a kid, lol) but you as a parent would step in and say "No...we did not pay for that, don't do it again" or something similiar. A pit of balls is not the same as a "try me" toy.

I think we as parents are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Perhaps some will think you were being lax by letting your kids bounce the balls; on the flip side, I have been labeled as "uptight" because I would not have let them bounce the balls.

Bottom line is, like you said, you feel you are doing a good job. What other people think shouldn't matter so much.

[ilovepinkhearts]

^^lol! not at your post, but at the part where you said the pit ball isn't a park. i use those same exact words with them. i tell them "we aren't at park so you don't run around and play." as in run a muck, i don't mind them touching the toys...or bouncing a ball as long as they are under control and they aren't making a mess and or getting in other patrons way.

i guess the main issue is that i have absolutely no problem with them bouncing a ball a few times and then returning it back into it's proper place. and i don't appreciate an employee at a store where i will spending money being rude [and yes they were rude, very rude] to my boys. i would not have gotten my feathers ruffled had they not been.

and what i meant by if i think my boys are in the wrong, i tell them. "don't touch that" "don't do that" "be polite" "say excuse me"...and on and on. i don't need a complete stranger to do that for me, it's my job and i was doing it.

i want them to have respect for other people, plain and simple. but the employees weren't respectful, their tone and their attitude proved that. my children did nothing wrong in my eyes. they need to stop worrying about them bouncing a ball and go after the tweens that run through the store and almost knock down other people [that actually happened to me]. or the ones that are stealing the movies and the games. why worry so much about a ball??

**maybe i should have titled it "how would you feel"....hmmm
and i agree with you 100% omgsweet!!
and thanks missbanff :) i do give a damn!!

[ilovepinkhearts]

just a thought...if your child was doing something [what ever it may be] and you as their parent thinks that what they are doing is ok and you have no issue with it at all. you would be ok with a stranger walking up to your child and telling them rudely that they need to stop?

[biggestbaglover]

^^^I have read this entire thread in detail and have refrained from responding but I can no longer keep my mouth closed. That is all fine and good at home where you are the owner and the boss. However, if I am in someone else's store, it is not a place where my opinion has precedence. It is that person's property so what I think is right does not apply. If the rule is not to bounce the balls then the rule is not to bounce the balls...that's it. Whether you think this is fair/right or not is irrelevant.

I am also a teacher and the rules in my classroom are my rules. I expect whoever is in my space to follow them regardless of whether or not they would do these things at home. Maybe the kids or their parents feel that my rules may be unnecessary as they do not share the same viewpoint or they have different parenting strategies. This is all irrelevant to me. They can choose to do as they like in their own home but when their child is in my classroom, their child is expected to follow the rules of the classroom, just like any other child. I am not trying to offend you in any way as I really enjoy reading your posts but I do know that you have previously had problems with your son in school as he has repeatedly gotten into trouble for not following the rules. You had asked what to do in these situations. One of the key things here is that rules are rules and they must be followed. After the first time when they were reprimanded for bouncing a ball, you should have put a halt to the behaviour and not have allowed them to do it again. Whether or not you feel that it is fair is irrelevant. An employee who works there told them to stop so they need to stop. Otherwise you are teaching them to only follow the rules that they think are fair if you allow them to do it because you see no problem with it. This behaviour WILL get worse as they get older, I can guarantee you that as I have seen this many, many, many times. They are not able to decide what rules are fair for them in school. If they do not follow, they will get in trouble just as your one son has in the past. Yet you are setting them up to believe that they can decide what rules to follow based on if they agree with them or not. I also do not agree with you yelling at the employee in front of your child...it just sets a bad precedent.

At the same time, I am also a mother to two young kids who is extremely protective over my children. I do not think the employees should have been rude. This would have angered me also however, I would not have reacted in the same manner as this would have been a picture I would not have wanted my children to see. Instead, I would have told them that they were breaking a rule and we would have left. I would then return by myself to complain to the manager about the employees behavior. Trust me, my kids are not perfect. They can be rowdy and they can also do things that embarrass me however I do not let them get away with any of this behaviour. They know that they must behave a particular way when we are out in public and if they do not follow the rules, we leave immediately and they have lost the privilige of going out until their behaviour improves. I have seen the effects of what happens to children who are not parented properly (not referring to you in any way) and it is not pretty nor a place I ever want my kids to be.

Please do not be offended by anything I have said. I have tried to be as honest as possible in order to help you understand my viewpoint and hopefully see this incident as a learning experience. As parents, everyday is a new learning experience so rather than viewing this as an opportunity to get offended, take it as a learning experience.

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by ilovepinkhearts

just a thought...if your child was doing something [what ever it may be] and you as their parent thinks that what they are doing is ok and you have no issue with it at all. you would be ok with a stranger walking up to your child and telling them rudely that they need to stop?

Seriously...everyone here agreed multiple times that talking to children directly in a RUDE manner by people in a public place who are not their parent is not a way to go, why do you keep asking that? I am honestly confused.

[Willie7027]

I think I would put my "momma bear" mode aside for a moment and ask myself if what my child is doing is really OK.

I have a friend who told me a story about the time her two year old daughter was going from table to table in a resturant talking with people. My friend got quite the negative reaction from the other patrons. In retrospect, she just never considered the possibility that some people may not find this behavior as cute and charming as she did. After all, who could not find a two year old little girl cute, especially her little girl? After some thought, she was very embarassed. Since then she has become aware that allowing her child to do this is very bothersome to others and can be potentially dangerous for wait staff carrying trays and restrains her daughter from this behavior. I am sure though that many people still feel there is nothing "wrong" with allowing your child to do this since it happens all the time in some resturants.

I'm not suggesting that you should be embarassed. I'm suggesting that just because you don't think there's anything wrong with bouncing balls in the store, apparently many other folks do. Perhaps just recognizing that there is such a variable opinion on the topic should be enough to discourage such play in places that are clearly not intended for this type of play. As my mother always told me, you don't bounce the ball in the house....or the store because it is an "outside toy." Whether you agree with it or not, it will likely prevent similar incidents.

In general terms, (and I'm NOT referring to something as minor as this example) sometimes it becomes incumbent on the rest of society to let a child know their behavior is unacceptable because the parent isn't aware or doesn't care that the behavior is inappropriate and isn't doing anything to correct it. Again, I'm referring to issues more significant than bouncing a ball in Target and I am NOT suggesting the OP is anything other than a caring parent.

I'm simply suggesting that people need to look outside of what they are comfortable with and think is OK and consider the environment they are in and the other people in that environment before deciding if having someone else correct their child is inappropriate. What's OK in one's own home isn't so OK in other settings. And, NO....I'm not condoning any type of rudeness to anyone. I think that point is universally agreed upon. Sometimes people just don't realize the impact of what they are allowing their children to do. It doesn't make them a bad parent, just human.

[sweetneet]

Originally Posted by biggestbaglover

^^^I have read this entire thread in detail and have refrained from responding but I can no longer keep my mouth closed. That is all fine and good at home where you are the owner and the boss. However, if I am in someone else's store, it is not a place where my opinion has precedence. It is that person's property so what I think is right does not apply. If the rule is not to bounce the balls then the rule is not to bounce the balls...that's it. Whether you think this is fair/right or not is irrelevant.

I tend to somewhat agree with this. I guess the example that comes to mind is when visiting someone else's house. For example, growing up, we were not to wear shoes inside the house..we always had to take our shoes off when coming inside. Many people respected this rule, but I remember my mom had this friend that outright ignored this rule, and let her kids play inside our house with shoes on. I guess this friend didn't see anything wrong with wearing shoes inside the house, because at their house they wore shoes inside all the time. Yet I think that was wrong of her to assume that just because she personally didn't see anything wrong with it, then it was perfectly okay for her kids to do.

again, there are 2 issues here--one is the the rudeness/tone and the other is the mere fact of someone else directly telling your child not to do something. i don't think it is right for another person (stranger, employee, etc) to rudely talk to a child, but I think they do have the right to tell your child to stop doing something that is against their rules, even though you personally may not necessarily think they are doing something wrong.

[DangerousJade]

I am a teacher as well, and I agree with biggestbaglover's post. The issue at play here is treating public locations and expectations with respect even if we don't agree with the rule on principle. Public manners don't matter because everyone thinks they are necessary 100% of the time, they matter because they show our willingness to cooperate kindly and forgivingly with people we meet in all situations.

I still feel like we are all talking past each other in this thread when it comes to the issues. Should employees ever be rude, especially to children? NO. Should someone else attempt to parent your children? NO. But was the OP in a position to determine the rules? Not really.

I guess I would extrapolate this from a store to a home. Imagine if you had guests in your home and their child was doing something that you preferred they not do. Not something that would do damage, but fiddling with something that made you nervous and that you would want left alone in a ideal situation. Then the parents reassure you that you don't have to worry, their children are allowed to do that because they are the parents and they accept this behavior. This would almost certainly be considered offensive, because the parents aren't in a position to determine what is acceptable treatment of your possessions in your home. Likewise in the classroom, my students (high school) don't get to tell me what they are allowed to do at home; they are required to follow my rules. I am not their parent, but they are in my classroom, and my classroom is part of a school with certain expectations. Even if these are not expectations someone agrees with, that's the way it is.

Could the store put the balls out of reach? Yes. Could the employee pick them up? Yes. Could they have signs? Yes. But this is beyond the point. The point is that, like it or not, you are on the store's property and dealing with items that do not belong to you. They get to make the rules, even if they are stupid rules. If you don't like the rules, you get to stop shopping there. That is the power of the consumer. What the consumer does not have the power to do is determine their preferred rules on an individual basis based on what they think should be okay.

The issue her for me, and I think for many posters, is not denying that the employees were likely out of line, but sending the message that rules are arbitrary and up to individual preference. It doesn't matter that bouncing the balls is harmless, it matters that you don't get to override the rules in a public location with someone else's property because you don't really think they make sense. There are many justifications for why it's okay with the OP that they bounced the balls (it was harmless, the parent's considered it acceptable, there were not signs, there are worse things people do in store, someone's job includes picking up, etc) but these are just that: justifications. The fact of the matter is they were told on three different occasions not to play with the balls, and there is still the attitude that hey, we can do that if we want! It's not about if they are your kids. It's about if they are your balls, for lack of a better summary!

This is a very silly issue in the scheme of things, and I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. It doesn't suggest horrendous parenting or unforgivably bad manners or anything of the sort. What I think most posters are concerned with is the tremendous entitlement: that if I can think of a good enough reason, the rules don't apply to me. This isn't true in the real world, and it doesn't encourage a flexible attitude for interacting with others in a respectful, cooperative, likeable, and productive way.

[biggestbaglover]

Originally Posted by DangerousJade

I am a teacher as well, and I agree with biggestbaglover's post. The issue at play here is treating public locations and expectations with respect even if we don't agree with the rule on principle. Public manners don't matter because everyone thinks they are necessary 100% of the time, they matter because they show our willingness to cooperate kindly and forgivingly with people we meet in all situations. I still feel like we are all talking past each other in this thread when it comes to the issues. Should employees ever be rude, especially to children? NO. Should someone else attempt to parent your children? NO. But was the OP in a position to determine the rules? Not really. I guess I would extrapolate this from a store to a home. Imagine if you had guests in your home and their child was doing something that you preferred they not do. Not something that would do damage, but fiddling with something that made you nervous and that you would want left alone in a ideal situation. Then the parents reassure you that you don't have to worry, their children are allowed to do that because they are the parents and they accept this behavior. This would almost certainly be considered offensive, because the parents aren't in a position to determine what is acceptable treatment of your possessions in your home. Likewise in the classroom, my students (high school) don't get to tell me what they are allowed to do at home; they are required to follow my rules. I am not their parent, but they are in my classroom, and my classroom is part of a school with certain expectations. Even if these are not expectations someone agrees with, that's the way it is. Could the store put the balls out of reach? Yes. Could the employee pick them up? Yes. Could they have signs? Yes. But this is beyond the point. The point is that, like it or not, you are on the store's property and dealing with items that do not belong to you. They get to make the rules, even if they are stupid rules. If you don't like the rules, you get to stop shopping there. That is the power of the consumer. What the consumer does not have the power to do is determine their preferred rules on an individual basis based on what they think should be okay. The issue her for me, and I think for many posters, is not denying that the employees were likely out of line, but sending the message that rules are arbitrary and up to individual preference. It doesn't matter that bouncing the balls is harmless, it matters that you don't get to override the rules in a public location with someone else's property because you don't really think they make sense. There are many justifications for why it's okay with the OP that they bounced the balls (it was harmless, the parent's considered it acceptable, there were not signs, there are worse things people do in store, someone's job includes picking up, etc) but these are just that: justifications. The fact of the matter is they were told on three different occasions not to play with the balls, and there is still the attitude that hey, we can do that if we want! It's not about if they are your kids. It's about if they are your balls, for lack of a better summary! This is a very silly issue in the scheme of things, and I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. It doesn't suggest horrendous parenting or unforgivably bad manners or anything of the sort. What I think most posters are concerned with is the tremendous entitlement: that if I can think of a good enough reason, the rules don't apply to me. This isn't true in the real world, and it doesn't encourage a flexible attitude for interacting with others in a respectful, cooperative, likeable, and productive way.

Fantastic response. You have expressed my thoughts in a much clearer manner than I was able to.

[Willie7027]

Originally Posted by DangerousJade

I am a teacher as well, and I agree with biggestbaglover's post. The issue at play here is treating public locations and expectations with respect even if we don't agree with the rule on principle. Public manners don't matter because everyone thinks they are necessary 100% of the time, they matter because they show our willingness to cooperate kindly and forgivingly with people we meet in all situations. I still feel like we are all talking past each other in this thread when it comes to the issues. Should employees ever be rude, especially to children? NO. Should someone else attempt to parent your children? NO. But was the OP in a position to determine the rules? Not really. I guess I would extrapolate this from a store to a home. Imagine if you had guests in your home and their child was doing something that you preferred they not do. Not something that would do damage, but fiddling with something that made you nervous and that you would want left alone in a ideal situation. Then the parents reassure you that you don't have to worry, their children are allowed to do that because they are the parents and they accept this behavior. This would almost certainly be considered offensive, because the parents aren't in a position to determine what is acceptable treatment of your possessions in your home. Likewise in the classroom, my students (high school) don't get to tell me what they are allowed to do at home; they are required to follow my rules. I am not their parent, but they are in my classroom, and my classroom is part of a school with certain expectations. Even if these are not expectations someone agrees with, that's the way it is. Could the store put the balls out of reach? Yes. Could the employee pick them up? Yes. Could they have signs? Yes. But this is beyond the point. The point is that, like it or not, you are on the store's property and dealing with items that do not belong to you. They get to make the rules, even if they are stupid rules. If you don't like the rules, you get to stop shopping there. That is the power of the consumer. What the consumer does not have the power to do is determine their preferred rules on an individual basis based on what they think should be okay. The issue her for me, and I think for many posters, is not denying that the employees were likely out of line, but sending the message that rules are arbitrary and up to individual preference. It doesn't matter that bouncing the balls is harmless, it matters that you don't get to override the rules in a public location with someone else's property because you don't really think they make sense. There are many justifications for why it's okay with the OP that they bounced the balls (it was harmless, the parent's considered it acceptable, there were not signs, there are worse things people do in store, someone's job includes picking up, etc) but these are just that: justifications. The fact of the matter is they were told on three different occasions not to play with the balls, and there is still the attitude that hey, we can do that if we want! It's not about if they are your kids. It's about if they are your balls, for lack of a better summary! This is a very silly issue in the scheme of things, and I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. It doesn't suggest horrendous parenting or unforgivably bad manners or anything of the sort. What I think most posters are concerned with is the tremendous entitlement: that if I can think of a good enough reason, the rules don't apply to me. This isn't true in the real world, and it doesn't encourage a flexible attitude for interacting with others in a respectful, cooperative, likeable, and productive way.

This was exactly what I was trying to articulate. You did a much better job. I agree completely.

[missbanff]

Ditto, with Willie7072 and biggestbaglover.

[ilovepinkhearts]

im not going to continue to beat a dead horse...we all have our different opinions which is what makes this world so wonderful. i love the thoughts of others.

my last statement will be...the balls do not belong to the grouchy employees. they are store property. the grouches work for the store yes, but that doesn't mean the objects in the store are theirs, and thus they don't have a right to be rude to a child that is doing something they don't agree with. if i had a problem with them bouncing the balls i would never let them see them or touch them again.

i am the parent, no matter what. what i say goes unless i ask for help from someone else.

they aren't in a class room, where they are to listen and to follow the rules of the teacher/class. they aren't out and about without either of their parents. they weren't out of control to where an employee felt they had the right to intercede. they were with us. and i was in control of the situation.

so with that said i will read other responses, but i may not reply any more...i think i have made my stand on this rather clear :)