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twinkle.tink · Jul 4th, 2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

Hi vhdos. Yes, there are a lot of different hazards like the woman plowing into your kid, but that is not the subject of this thread.

And the OP admitted herself on one occasion that she didnt even see her kids because she was round the corner, so even if they did something inappropriate she wouldnt know.

If you actually read the OP, she said the child was on his way to put the ball away and she was following him...around the corner meant that she was no more than a few steps away following him....not around the corner ignoring him...big difference.

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

I think people are a bit carried away with trying to make a distinction what is and what is not acceptable to play with and how in a store. Store is not a playground, simple as that.

People make the distinction, because there is a difference. Life is not black and white, but many, many shades of gray and is anything but simple.

The whole world is a playground to me

nataliam1976 · Jul 4th, 2009, 07:00 PM

I dont see the reason why apply many many shades of gray to rules of behaviour in places like supermarket. Some things can be kept simple.

Rockst@r · Jul 5th, 2009, 10:49 AM

I know people will disagree with me here, but NOTHING should be played with in a store until it's purchased. Would you want to buy toys with wear and tear on them from use? If they need a toy, bring one they already own with them.

I used to be in management in a corporate owned store for a major cellular provider. I remember a child was pulling the bungee cord that REAL and WORKING cell phones were attached to. He was pulling them and letting the phones snap back against the wall. The parent was standing right there. I don't address children. (I would only do so if I did not see a parent.) I did tell the parent that I would charge their account for every broken phone resulting from that child's behavior. And I said it loudly. I already had his account number, as he was there for service. A great majority of parents let their children do whatever they want. I've done retail for a total of 10yrs (thankfully no more!) and one runs out of patience for that sort of thing.

I just don't allow my children to touch items in a store. I actually think it's rather disrespectful to the shop owner when there is no intent to buy. When they break something, then what? Usually, what would start off as allowing a child to bounce a ball, will end up with a child thinking that they can touch anything. Children are not entitled to play with things they do not own.

JMHO and no malice intended!

babypie · Jul 5th, 2009, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Glamfoxx

I would be upset if somebody got in my kid's face over something like bouncing a ball, but...

I was taught as a child to not play with the items for sale at stores as you do not play with things that are not yours.

I was taught the same thing. Walmart is not a toy library.

DangerousJade · Jul 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM

I think it's a situation of disrespect and entitlement on both sides. The store employee feels they have a right to speak harshly to the children, and the OP feels she has a right to decide what the rules in a store ought to be, even with three distinct indications otherwise.

It's not teaching children respect to show them that when they are asked/told to behave a certain way in a public place, it only applies to them if you think it's a good rule. It's not showing customers respect if you overreact to a harmless situation.

I think both parties are equally in the wrong, although the instigation of the situation (three times) seems to lay more with the OP. I would probably have demonstrated proper behavior by calmly and directly apologizing to the clerk in the first store and requesting that they speak more politely to customers and direct their concerns with children to the parents. Then, I would have taught my children that bouncing the balls is obviously against the rules, and since they are not our balls and this is not our home, we don't need to be told twice.

vhdos · Jul 5th, 2009, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rockst@r

I know people will disagree with me here, but NOTHING should be played with in a store until it's purchased. Would you want to buy toys with wear and tear on them from use? If they need a toy, bring one they already own with them.

I used to be in management in a corporate owned store for a major cellular provider. I remember a child was pulling the bungee cord that REAL and WORKING cell phones were attached to. He was pulling them and letting the phones snap back against the wall. The parent was standing right there. I don't address children. (I would only do so if I did not see a parent.) I did tell the parent that I would charge their account for every broken phone resulting from that child's behavior. And I said it loudly. I already had his account number, as he was there for service. A great majority of parents let their children do whatever they want. I've done retail for a total of 10yrs (thankfully no more!) and one runs out of patience for that sort of thing.

I just don't allow my children to touch items in a store. I actually think it's rather disrespectful to the shop owner when there is no intent to buy. When they break something, then what? Usually, what would start off as allowing a child to bounce a ball, will end up with a child thinking that they can touch anything. Children are not entitled to play with things they do not own.

JMHO and no malice intended!

I just don't get the rationale?
How about squeezing the produce in a grocery store before you buy it?
What about trying on clothes? We only end up purchasing a small percentage of what we try on and yet we've pulled it over our almost naked bodies, pulled and tugged on it, squeezed into it, split a zipper or popped a button, ripped a seam, got make-up all over it, etc. etc. etc. (all accidental mind you)
These are examples of touching/playing with things before they are purchased.
Again, I am not condoning reckless, unsupervised playing in a store. But I see nothing wrong with handing my child a toy while they sit in the cart because I may actually end up buying it for them if they really like it.
I liked your story with the cell phone store. That's exactly what I referred to in an earlier post about the "bad" parents ruining it for the good ones.
By the way, no malice taken! Your post was good. Thanks for sharing.

dell · Jul 5th, 2009, 11:07 PM

Let me tell you my parents own a restaurant and I have to tell children to STOP all the time. It KILLS me when they stand on the tables, throw food, scream and yell.... Parents do not discipline their children, and it is NOT fair that my other customers have to put up with that crap!

I don't want to go into a store and purchase a ball for my daughter that your son has been bouncing all over the store! At that point the item is USED, and that isn't fair to me.

These poor people that work in these stores pick crap up all day long that children, and adults, leave every where. So if you don't want them to yell at your children then teach them NOT TO TOUCH what isn't theirs.

ilovepinkhearts · Jul 5th, 2009, 11:22 PM

well it appears that there will always be 2 totally opposite ways that people think. some think it's disrespectful that my sons have played with a plastic light weight bouncy ball numerous time and out of those numerous times they were asked 3 times [very rudely] to stop. and others [me] see no issue on it as long as they are not being a danger to themselves or to others.

the whole point of my first post was basically: when is it ok for a complete stranger to feel it is appropriate to step in a try to parent a child?

my thoughts when it would be appropriate -
they may cause harm to them self
they may cause or are casing harm to others
they are destroying/messing up store property

i don't consider my sons bouncing a ball in a store to be any of the issues stated above. and yes they have been told 3 times [rudely] to stop and yes i proceeded to tell the employee that i am the parent and i am taking care of the issue. but i don't feel a stranger, even an employee has the right to discipline my children. ESPECIALLY when the i am standing right there next to them.

and just to clear things up, my sons where in my line of site the WHOLE time in each and every situation. it was the young man [instance #2] that couldn't see me or my husband. the 1st instance we were right there as she got in his face. and the 3rd, the employee rounded a corner and went down an aisle, and i had to go around it to tell him that i was taking care of it.

as i have stated, had the employees not been rude it wouldn't be that big of a deal. i will parent my children the way that i deem is right.

call me stupid or naive, but there are no rules written that states that a child isn't allowed to touch/play with a toy. if that were the case then every time i see a child on the toy aisle i should start telling them to keep their hands to them self...because there are always kids touching and playing with this or that.

and just a thought: why are toys packaged to where a child can play with it? why do the boxes state "TRY ME!!"? why are there game consoles [wii, nintendo, xbox] set up with games in them and controllers? it's to entice them in with the hopes of having a parent to buy it.

so im sorry if some of you think that i am not teaching my children respect because i let them bounce a ball a few times and then it's put away back where it came from...i am not going to change my perspective. i think i am doing a darn good job. :)

ilovepinkhearts · Jul 5th, 2009, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by dell

Let me tell you my parents own a restaurant and I have to tell children to STOP all the time. It KILLS me when they stand on the tables, throw food, scream and yell.... Parents do not discipline their children, and it is NOT fair that my other customers have to put up with that crap!

I don't want to go into a store and purchase a ball for my daughter that your son has been bouncing all over the store! At that point the item is USED, and that isn't fair to me.

These poor people that work in these stores pick crap up all day long that children, and adults, leave every where. So if you don't want them to yell at your children then teach them NOT TO TOUCH what isn't theirs.

then yes those children need to be told to stop...but sheeesh a plastic ball that touches the floor a few times...it's not like they rub it in poop. do you realize how many other times those balls have been all over the floor?? it's not like my sons are the only ones that have touched them.

and once again they aren't taking them out of the aisle. they maybe played with the ball for a whole minute. so there is not an employee having to follow us around and pick up after them.

im not trying to be a total b*tch...but i honestly can't even compare them bouncing a ball to a child climbing on top of a table and throwing food.....that is totally a different ball park. and my sons would NEVER do that. my husband and i discipline our children...i really don't appreciate all the innuendos that i don't and that we aren't respectful. :(

and as for the people that are working in the store on the floor...that is their job. they are getting paid to keep the store picked up. it's not fun. it's not great. but when it's your job you have to do. and as i have stated i worked retail...i know ALL about it, so i am respectful to them, i don't allow my children to take toys and leave them all over the store. and adults are way worse...i have seen so many of them trying on a pile of clothes because it's "fun". and they don't even bother to put them back on the hanger, they leave them in pile on the floor.

omgsweet · Jul 5th, 2009, 11:45 PM

Pink, from what you described, I don't think your kids did anything wrong.

You know you have good kids and I think you are doing a great job with them. Parenting is hard...and we protect our kids from rude people. I start feeling heated when someone looks at my daughter the wrong way. I am very protective and I can tell you are the same.

I remember as a child thinking that all adults (other than my family) hated me. I was not a trouble maker and was very quiet and shy when it came to other people. I think it is because some people don't like kids and kids can tell. I never want my child to feel that way. If anyone tried to yell at my child I would react just as you did.

The toys are there because they want to entice the kids. If they didn't want the kids touching them they would be put up high or behind glass. If children weren’t suppose to touch the balls, they would not make it easy for a child get the balls out of the big ball case. You know what I mean? The opening in the big ball case is way down at child’s level. If they put it up higher then the child would need an adult to get a ball out.

I think this thread is going to attract those who do not like or do not want children. So, beware of that when posting a thread of this nature.

HauteMama · Jul 5th, 2009, 11:51 PM

After reading all the responses and thinking on this, I think the situation with BALLS is different from pushing a "Try ME!" button on a toy in a box on a shelf. The reason I feel that way is because I was actually in a WalMart the other day that had a big display of large blue and aqua bouncy balls in a bin in the middle of a large aisle. The bin had movable ropes for the sides so that the balls could be removed, as it was too tall to reach into it. The store was not busy, and I told my daughter she could choose one; I would purchase it. She went over and took the ball she wanted and I asked her to pplease put it into the cart. She brought it over and as she was reaching to put it into the cart, she didn't reach quite high enough and it fell off the side instead.

Out of nowhere there was an older lady pushing a cart near us. Like I said, the store was not busy, and I had not seen her because I was focusing on making sure my children were behaving. The ball went directly in front of her cart, and could easily have become caught between the cart and an aisle display. That could easily have caused her cart to stop suddenly and she could have lost her balance. As it was, I retrieved the ball immediately and apologized profusely to the lady. She smiled, as she had seen and heard what had happened and knew my child had not been playing and it was not intentional.

My point in this long, drawn-out story (there is one, really!) is that it is too easy for accidents to happen with balls. The smaller ones can get caught under the edge of a cart, causing harm to the ball or the person pushing the other cart. Larger ones can easliy bounce away from small hands and hit other displays, knocking things over, or they can get caught between a cart and a display like I was afraid ours would. These things are not intentional and they can happen in a second - you never know when another cart will round a corner or when a child might lose a grip or miss the ball he or a sibling tossed or bounced. Balls are an inherently different situation than are other toys in boxes on shelves, and they can easily present hazzards to others in the store.

While this does not excuse an employee's rude behaviour, they have probably seen situations that didn't end as well as mine over and over again. Balls are a hazzard to be played with inside the store, just as they usually are inside a house (at least they are in my house). Children should not be playing with them, regardless of whether they are supervised by a parent or not.

GirlFriday · Jul 6th, 2009, 12:09 AM

I don't think an employee should be rude to your kids, but I don't see what's wrong with an adult asking a child to stop doing something they shouldn't be doing? If a kid is, for instance, 5 years old, he's old enough for me to speak to him directly. When I worked at the hospital, sometimes a parent wouldn't stop behavior and if I asked the kid to stop (nicely), the parent would get mad about it. So you won't stop your kids bad behavior, but you're mad that I asked him to stop? That teaches your kids to not respect adults. That the adult is the bad guy for asking you to stop something, even though the kid shouldn't be doing it in the first place. I don't know, my mom taught be not to touch things, but a couple of times when I was a kid an employee said something to me and asked me to stop. I stopped and I was mortified (mostly embarrassed) and when I told my mom, she would say, "well that's what you get." And she was right.

dell · Jul 6th, 2009, 01:01 AM

^^ Exactly!

There is no need for people to be rude, but when you are in public something that you may not think offensive, may be to someone else.

canada's · Jul 6th, 2009, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by ilovepinkhearts

my thoughts when it would be appropriate -
they may cause harm to them self
they may cause or are casing harm to others
they are destroying/messing up store property

if you OR a store employee wait until this point to tell the kid put the ball down, it's too late. at this point, the store can be held liable for someone being hurt or you may be liable for destroying/messing up store property. do you need it to come to this before you or anyone disciplines your child?

i really wouldn't even call it "disciplining" them, it's just saying hey, that isn't yours, put it down. there's no problem with your boys playing with a ball, the problem lies in them doing it with something that isn't theirs in a place that isn't meant to be a playground.

it seems this has happened three times with the oldest child and he has yet to learn not to pick a ball in a store even after being reprimanded? why do you think this is? surely by now he thinks if a ball is in a store, he's allowed to play with it just as he plays with a ball he owns while he's in your yard or at the park. by this point, it's all the same to him, i guess.

dell · Jul 6th, 2009, 04:13 AM

^ Great post!!

That's exactly it.

Also, like you said, the store owner or operator will be held liable if someone or something gets damaged.

I have a 9 month old, is it ok for me to hand her a toy while she sits in the basket and she chews it, slobbers on it, throws it, and then you purchase it for your new baby... Are you ok with that? Or maybe I go a crazy step further and let her suck on the pacifier from the isle because I seem to have forgotten hers, and I put it back once I am done shopping. The point of that is that the item is used. It's gross.

Jul 4th, 2009, 07:00 PM	#32
nataliam1976 Dior Goddess:-) Joined: Nov 2006 Location: all around Europe Posts: 12,693	I dont see the reason why apply many many shades of gray to rules of behaviour in places like supermarket. Some things can be kept simple.
	__________________ PLEASE DO NOT PM ME FOR AUTHENTICATIONS Dear Dior fans ! >>> PLEASE READ THIS: Some guidelines/tips on authentication <<< before you post - if you dont provide REQUIRED PICTURES - especially clear close up of the front and back of the inside tag, your posts will not be replied to, thanks ! Last edited by nataliam1976; Jul 4th, 2009 at 07:04 PM.

Jul 5th, 2009, 10:49 AM	#33
Rockst@r Zeta lady 4ever Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 932	I know people will disagree with me here, but NOTHING should be played with in a store until it's purchased. Would you want to buy toys with wear and tear on them from use? If they need a toy, bring one they already own with them. I used to be in management in a corporate owned store for a major cellular provider. I remember a child was pulling the bungee cord that REAL and WORKING cell phones were attached to. He was pulling them and letting the phones snap back against the wall. The parent was standing right there. I don't address children. (I would only do so if I did not see a parent.) I did tell the parent that I would charge their account for every broken phone resulting from that child's behavior. And I said it loudly. I already had his account number, as he was there for service. A great majority of parents let their children do whatever they want. I've done retail for a total of 10yrs (thankfully no more!) and one runs out of patience for that sort of thing. I just don't allow my children to touch items in a store. I actually think it's rather disrespectful to the shop owner when there is no intent to buy. When they break something, then what? Usually, what would start off as allowing a child to bounce a ball, will end up with a child thinking that they can touch anything. Children are not entitled to play with things they do not own. JMHO and no malice intended!
	__________________

Jul 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM	#35
DangerousJade Broadway Baby Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 678	I think it's a situation of disrespect and entitlement on both sides. The store employee feels they have a right to speak harshly to the children, and the OP feels she has a right to decide what the rules in a store ought to be, even with three distinct indications otherwise. It's not teaching children respect to show them that when they are asked/told to behave a certain way in a public place, it only applies to them if you think it's a good rule. It's not showing customers respect if you overreact to a harmless situation. I think both parties are equally in the wrong, although the instigation of the situation (three times) seems to lay more with the OP. I would probably have demonstrated proper behavior by calmly and directly apologizing to the clerk in the first store and requesting that they speak more politely to customers and direct their concerns with children to the parents. Then, I would have taught my children that bouncing the balls is obviously against the rules, and since they are not our balls and this is not our home, we don't need to be told twice.
DangerousJade Broadway Baby Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 678

Jul 5th, 2009, 11:07 PM	#37
dell Member Joined: May 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,429	Let me tell you my parents own a restaurant and I have to tell children to STOP all the time. It KILLS me when they stand on the tables, throw food, scream and yell.... Parents do not discipline their children, and it is NOT fair that my other customers have to put up with that crap! I don't want to go into a store and purchase a ball for my daughter that your son has been bouncing all over the store! At that point the item is USED, and that isn't fair to me. These poor people that work in these stores pick crap up all day long that children, and adults, leave every where. So if you don't want them to yell at your children then teach them NOT TO TOUCH what isn't theirs.
	__________________ ~Danielle~

Jul 5th, 2009, 11:22 PM	#38
ilovepinkhearts OP team edward. always. Joined: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 4,388	well it appears that there will always be 2 totally opposite ways that people think. some think it's disrespectful that my sons have played with a plastic light weight bouncy ball numerous time and out of those numerous times they were asked 3 times [very rudely] to stop. and others [me] see no issue on it as long as they are not being a danger to themselves or to others. the whole point of my first post was basically: when is it ok for a complete stranger to feel it is appropriate to step in a try to parent a child? my thoughts when it would be appropriate - they may cause harm to them self they may cause or are casing harm to others they are destroying/messing up store property i don't consider my sons bouncing a ball in a store to be any of the issues stated above. and yes they have been told 3 times [rudely] to stop and yes i proceeded to tell the employee that i am the parent and i am taking care of the issue. but i don't feel a stranger, even an employee has the right to discipline my children. ESPECIALLY when the i am standing right there next to them. and just to clear things up, my sons where in my line of site the WHOLE time in each and every situation. it was the young man [instance #2] that couldn't see me or my husband. the 1st instance we were right there as she got in his face. and the 3rd, the employee rounded a corner and went down an aisle, and i had to go around it to tell him that i was taking care of it. as i have stated, had the employees not been rude it wouldn't be that big of a deal. i will parent my children the way that i deem is right. call me stupid or naive, but there are no rules written that states that a child isn't allowed to touch/play with a toy. if that were the case then every time i see a child on the toy aisle i should start telling them to keep their hands to them self...because there are always kids touching and playing with this or that. and just a thought: why are toys packaged to where a child can play with it? why do the boxes state "TRY ME!!"? why are there game consoles [wii, nintendo, xbox] set up with games in them and controllers? it's to entice them in with the hopes of having a parent to buy it. so im sorry if some of you think that i am not teaching my children respect because i let them bounce a ball a few times and then it's put away back where it came from...i am not going to change my perspective. i think i am doing a darn good job. :)
	__________________ Please educate yourself about pancreatic cancer, and then share that knowledge with a loved one. http://www.pancan.org i will lose the weight...1 lb at a time!! i CAN do it! i'm not sure how many lbs to go - skinny jeans here i come!!

Jul 5th, 2009, 11:45 PM	#40
omgsweet omg...cute bag!! Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Scottsdale, Az Posts: 2,962	Pink, from what you described, I don't think your kids did anything wrong. You know you have good kids and I think you are doing a great job with them. Parenting is hard...and we protect our kids from rude people. I start feeling heated when someone looks at my daughter the wrong way. I am very protective and I can tell you are the same. I remember as a child thinking that all adults (other than my family) hated me. I was not a trouble maker and was very quiet and shy when it came to other people. I think it is because some people don't like kids and kids can tell. I never want my child to feel that way. If anyone tried to yell at my child I would react just as you did. The toys are there because they want to entice the kids. If they didn't want the kids touching them they would be put up high or behind glass. If children weren’t suppose to touch the balls, they would not make it easy for a child get the balls out of the big ball case. You know what I mean? The opening in the big ball case is way down at child’s level. If they put it up higher then the child would need an adult to get a ball out. I think this thread is going to attract those who do not like or do not want children. So, beware of that when posting a thread of this nature.
	__________________ How to invest for 2009 and Beyond Protect Yourself Against Institutional Traders Last edited by omgsweet; Jul 5th, 2009 at 11:57 PM.

Jul 5th, 2009, 11:51 PM	#41
HauteMama Member Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,831	After reading all the responses and thinking on this, I think the situation with BALLS is different from pushing a "Try ME!" button on a toy in a box on a shelf. The reason I feel that way is because I was actually in a WalMart the other day that had a big display of large blue and aqua bouncy balls in a bin in the middle of a large aisle. The bin had movable ropes for the sides so that the balls could be removed, as it was too tall to reach into it. The store was not busy, and I told my daughter she could choose one; I would purchase it. She went over and took the ball she wanted and I asked her to pplease put it into the cart. She brought it over and as she was reaching to put it into the cart, she didn't reach quite high enough and it fell off the side instead. Out of nowhere there was an older lady pushing a cart near us. Like I said, the store was not busy, and I had not seen her because I was focusing on making sure my children were behaving. The ball went directly in front of her cart, and could easily have become caught between the cart and an aisle display. That could easily have caused her cart to stop suddenly and she could have lost her balance. As it was, I retrieved the ball immediately and apologized profusely to the lady. She smiled, as she had seen and heard what had happened and knew my child had not been playing and it was not intentional. My point in this long, drawn-out story (there is one, really!) is that it is too easy for accidents to happen with balls. The smaller ones can get caught under the edge of a cart, causing harm to the ball or the person pushing the other cart. Larger ones can easliy bounce away from small hands and hit other displays, knocking things over, or they can get caught between a cart and a display like I was afraid ours would. These things are not intentional and they can happen in a second - you never know when another cart will round a corner or when a child might lose a grip or miss the ball he or a sibling tossed or bounced. Balls are an inherently different situation than are other toys in boxes on shelves, and they can easily present hazzards to others in the store. While this does not excuse an employee's rude behaviour, they have probably seen situations that didn't end as well as mine over and over again. Balls are a hazzard to be played with inside the store, just as they usually are inside a house (at least they are in my house). Children should not be playing with them, regardless of whether they are supervised by a parent or not.
HauteMama Member Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,831

Jul 6th, 2009, 12:09 AM	#42
GirlFriday Member Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,350	I don't think an employee should be rude to your kids, but I don't see what's wrong with an adult asking a child to stop doing something they shouldn't be doing? If a kid is, for instance, 5 years old, he's old enough for me to speak to him directly. When I worked at the hospital, sometimes a parent wouldn't stop behavior and if I asked the kid to stop (nicely), the parent would get mad about it. So you won't stop your kids bad behavior, but you're mad that I asked him to stop? That teaches your kids to not respect adults. That the adult is the bad guy for asking you to stop something, even though the kid shouldn't be doing it in the first place. I don't know, my mom taught be not to touch things, but a couple of times when I was a kid an employee said something to me and asked me to stop. I stopped and I was mortified (mostly embarrassed) and when I told my mom, she would say, "well that's what you get." And she was right.
GirlFriday Member Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,350

Jul 6th, 2009, 01:01 AM	#43
dell Member Joined: May 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,429	^^ Exactly! There is no need for people to be rude, but when you are in public something that you may not think offensive, may be to someone else.
	__________________ ~Danielle~

Jul 6th, 2009, 04:13 AM	#45
dell Member Joined: May 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,429	^ Great post!! That's exactly it. Also, like you said, the store owner or operator will be held liable if someone or something gets damaged. I have a 9 month old, is it ok for me to hand her a toy while she sits in the basket and she chews it, slobbers on it, throws it, and then you purchase it for your new baby... Are you ok with that? Or maybe I go a crazy step further and let her suck on the pacifier from the isle because I seem to have forgotten hers, and I put it back once I am done shopping. The point of that is that the item is used. It's gross.
	__________________ ~Danielle~

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