[i_wona]

I've just started reading this and am astounded at the kind of abuse that kids go through these days. Granted, not every kid goes through this, but it must be common enough, if someone has written a book about it!

Now I haven't got kids, but I was a teen once LOL and while I remember high school being trying at times, I do not ever remember being abused or ostracised or bullied in the ways described in this book. For those of you with daughters: have you had any experiences with this? If your daughters are still young, is this something you are expecting? Do you think you will have to prep yourself for this? Obviously, no one wants their daughter to go through this, or even believe that they might have to prepare for their child to be bullied at a high level, but the author cites that one of the main problems is that a lot of girls will suffer terribly at school and never let their parents know so it's a valuable skill to be able to approach your daughter and open up the channels of communication if you suspect they are being abused.

My next question is, then: is bullying evolving for the worse? Or is it all relative (ie. kids are growing up street-smarter and will instinctively get through any bullying, the way we all did)?

[i_wona]

aaahhh... and I just thought of a trickier question: is your daughter actually a 'queen bee'? Would you know? How? And if she is, are you secretly proud? I only ask this because I assume that it's easier to let your kid bully than be bullied... but where do you put a stop to it?

[[coco]]

i_wona (hi my love!!)... I may be able to comment here. Well I am a high school teacher (yes, and I have my own business - you don't think I can afford bags on a teachers salary do you!!) and I teach high school students at what is statistically the worst senior high school in my state. I started teaching at 20 years old (having 19 year olds in my class) and now being 25 - I am not too far off their age to know what is going on and understand 'the lingo'.

Unfortuantely the answer is yes - bullying is RIFE. It gets worse every year. Teenagers experiment with sex and drugs at much younger ages now - it is frightening.

I think every student experiences bullying at some stage.... but obviously some more than others.

There is so much I could say on this thread!!!!.......

[[coco]]

Originally Posted by i_wona

aaahhh... and I just thought of a trickier question: is your daughter actually a 'queen bee'? Would you know? How? And if she is, are you secretly proud? I only ask this because I assume that it's easier to let your kid bully than be bullied... but where do you put a stop to it?

In my experience working with young people being 'the queen bee' is not exactly smooth sailing for a parent either. Typically these parents would have to worry about a whole range of other problems that gave their student the power in the first place.

[i_wona]

coco!! hello lovely!

I'm just thinking of the movie "Mean Girls" which was apparently inspired by this book. The author says that the queen bee character is not an exaggeration of many high school girls, and in reality, they can be much crueller. Often their parents don't know, or even more often, their mums either consciously or subconsciously encourage this behaviour as they also consider themselves queen bees.


I'm also thinking about corey whathisname who's been in the news over the last few days - what a wanker! I cannot believe that a 16 year old can disrespect the police and his parents so much - he's not remorseful or fearful at all. I was watching him ham it up for the media and I thought then that kids have changed since I was a teenager (I'm 26). If we were ever in trouble, parents or the cops were the ultimate deterrent.

[[coco]]

Bullying has changed -alot. I see girls get picked on in year 9 (the year they turn 14) for still being virgins. I did not even know what sex was at that age!! ... times certainly have changed.

Is corey that kid who hosted an open house party?? That stupid little punk on the news? - he has now been hyped up to celebrity status. Apparently some jack ass over east (I think brissy) is actually paying him to host a party that will help him pay the fine!! Pathetic.......

i_wona i did not know you were 26?! .....remind me where you are again?

[Swanky Mama Of Three]

is this the book about Moms though?
I know there's a book about which parent you are, a Queen Bee or other. . . .

[Shari]

Originally Posted by i_wona

I'm also thinking about corey whathisname who's been in the news over the last few days - what a wanker! I cannot believe that a 16 year old can disrespect the police and his parents so much - he's not remorseful or fearful at all. I was watching him ham it up for the media and I thought then that kids have changed since I was a teenager (I'm 26). If we were ever in trouble, parents or the cops were the ultimate deterrent.

i_wona I am the same age as you. I understand what you are saying, but I really think it is the technological developments available today that led to Corey's 'success'. I was an awful teenager (I really owe my parents!) but honestly, without MySpace or a mobile phone, how could we have organised a party for 500 back in the day? I don't even think there were that many kids at my high school.

I think that teenagers are precocious, hormonal, illogical brats (for the most part) but the trouble they get into is determined more by the society they live in at the time because they all seem to display the same essential behaviour to me.

As for the Mean Girls/Queen Bee stuff, I haven't seen that movie or read the book - can you describe some of the behaviour?

[caitlin1214]

I bought the book after I saw Mean Girls.

For those who have seen Mean Girls, a Queen Bee is Regina George.






Your Daughter is a Queen Bee if . . . .

• Her friends do what she wants to do.
• She isn't intimidated by any other girl in her class.
• Her complaints about other girls are limited to the lame things they did or said.
• When she's young, you have to convince her to invite everyone to her birthday party. When she does invite everyone you want, she ignores and excludes some of her guests. (When she's older, you lose your privilege to tell her who she can invite.)
• She can persuade her peers to do just about anything she wants.
• She can argue anyone down, including friends, peers, teachers and parents.
• She's charming to adults, a female Eddie Haskell.
• She can make another girl feel 'anointed' by declaring her a special friend.
• She's affectionate, but often that affection is deployed to demonstrate her rejection of another girl. For example, she sees two girls in her group, one she's pleased with and one she isn't. When she sees them, she'll throw her arms around one and insist that they sit together and barely say anything to the other.
• She won't (or is very reluctant to) take responsibility when she hurts someone's feelings.
• If she thinks she's been wronged she feels she has the right to seek revenge. She has an eye-for-an-eye worldview.

(Queen Bees, pp. 25 - 26)

[caitlin1214]

Originally Posted by Swanky Mama Of Three

is this the book about Moms though?
I know there's a book about which parent you are, a Queen Bee or other. . . .

Swanky, while the entire book is aimed towards parents, chapter 2 is how to get involved in your child's life without resorting to reading diaries or e-mails. It's called Passport From Planet Parent to Girl World.



It starts by asking the parent what their parenting style is and then lists and describes parenting styles


To name a few:

The-Lock-Her-in-a-Closet-Parent

The Best Friend Parent

The Hip Parent

Pushover Parent

Benign Neglect Parent


Then it suggests that parents draw up a Parental Bill of Rights and suggests the daughter draw up a Daughter Bill of Rights.


Then it talks about how parents and children can open up with one another.




It also goes on to advise parents on how to listen and what to do if their child is an habitual liar. Then it gives scenarios and advice on how to deal with them: Sneaking out of the house, throwing parties while you're away . . .


It's very thorough.

[[coco]]

These girls really do exist... mean girls eat your heart out... it is alot worse.

[i_wona]

Originally Posted by Swanky Mama Of Three

is this the book about Moms though?
I know there's a book about which parent you are, a Queen Bee or other. . . .

As caitlin says this one is aimed at parents, but is about helping them to identify which profile their daughter fits into, with the hope that parents can help their girls out of harmful profiles and eventually reduce or eradicate cliques.

No wait, it's not about eradicating cliques, because the author says that cliques are ok. It's just power plays that turn into abuse or bullying that she is trying to reduce.

I've found it to be quite eye-opening: there are "check your baggage" sections for parents which help them to identify if they are subconsciously encouraging or passing on behavioural traits to their daughters.

It's very open about sex and drugs and lying and sneaking out and defensiveness and climbing/falling from social hierarchies and being a b*tch to your best friend and all those things we have all been doing as teenagers for the lat 2 million years. This book is about reading that behaviour in your daughter and figuring out if her social status is actually doing her harm.

[i_wona]

Originally Posted by Shari

i_wona I am the same age as you. I understand what you are saying, but I really think it is the technological developments available today that led to Corey's 'success'. I was an awful teenager (I really owe my parents!) but honestly, without MySpace or a mobile phone, how could we have organised a party for 500 back in the day? I don't even think there were that many kids at my high school.

I think that teenagers are precocious, hormonal, illogical brats (for the most part) but the trouble they get into is determined more by the society they live in at the time because they all seem to display the same essential behaviour to me.

As for the Mean Girls/Queen Bee stuff, I haven't seen that movie or read the book - can you describe some of the behaviour?

I agree that I was quite a horrible teenagaer too: moody, manipulative, resentful and all the rest of it. I also did drugs and got drunk and snuck out and snooged boys like crazy LOL

What i can't believe is the lack of respect for authority figures (and i know our parents siad this about us). Seriously, if you had been in that much trouble when you were a kid (to the point where the media was bashing your door down and the cops were going to fine you $20,000) would you have been so cocky? I know I would have been hiding in the house and praying that I would live through my parents coming home.

I certainly wouldn't have gone AWOL because "mum and dad might get mad." He's just trashed an entire neighbourhood - mum and dad bloody well should be mad and he needs to face the music.

*deep breaths deep breaths... calm blue ocean... calm blue ocean*

[i_wona]

Originally Posted by Shari

As for the Mean Girls/Queen Bee stuff, I haven't seen that movie or read the book - can you describe some of the behaviour?

Sorry, I'll stop ranting about little loser LOL

Ummm... I think caitlin posted a good example of the kinds of profiles in the book. The bits I found really interesting are things like social hierarchies and how some girls seem to instictively know how to manipulate them. You wouldn't believe some of the things these girls believe.

Here's an excerpt (and it's a direct quote from one of the author's workshops) - it was also used in the movie:

"My group has rules and punishment about everything [...]. We have rules about what we wear. You can only wear your hair up in a pony tail once a week. You can't wear a tank top two days in a row. You can only wear jeans on Friday and also the only time you can wear sneakers. If you break any of these rules, you can't sit with us at lunch [...]. Wearing something like sweats on a Monday is like going to church and screaming "I hate Jesus!" when you walk in the door.

If you want to invite someone to lunch, you have to formally invite them and the group has to vote on it. We do this because it's like buying a shirt without your friends telling you whether you look good in it or not [...]. If three or more people in the group really like her, we offer the extended invitation for a whole week. That's a trial period - it's like getting a dog at the pound and trying her out before you get a license and call her "Fluffy.""

or my other favourite:

"I'm perfect and I'm not in denial."

GOLD!!