Originally Posted by vhdos

To be honest, all I think about when I read this is that you're making excuses and quite frankly, it sounds like you're being selfish. This isn't about you, it's about your son and his relationship with his grandparents. You mentioned all of these odd things (they don't take care of their animals, their son has lots of girls over at night, they take criminals on vacation, etc.), but how does any of that even apply if you and your son were to have short visits with them? You could even schedule visits at parks, restaurants, etc. if you're uncomfortable being in their home. It sounds to me like the main reason why you don't want to visit them, is because you don't get along with them. Again, this isn't about you, it's about your son and about how he deserves a relationship with the grandparents he's spent so much time with in the past. Be a mature adult, suck it up, and plan visits with your son.

I have to agree with vhdos. I feel like your son probably can sense what's going on between you and his grandparents. I really think he misses them and acting out when he cannot spend time with them anymore. I mean again, at 3 years old, he will not be able to express his feeling and the only thing he know how is to throw fits here and there.

I agree with vhdos and glisten, and will add you should talk with them about why you're upset and don't want to leave him with them. It sounds like you're frsutrated and mad at them but they don't know, or if they know you're mad since you don't let them see him anymore, they probably don't know why.

To me, you sound passive in this situation and it seems like you want to avoid the unpleasantness with the grandparents and just take him away, but this is backfiring since it's impacting his behavior. As his mom, you need to actively stick up for yourself and him strongly with them. As much as you dislike them you need to be strong on his behalf and for his benefit.

I understand where you're coming from because I strongly, strongly dislike my in-laws and do not speak with them unless absolutely necessary, but I keep my lips zipped when my kiddo is with them because I never want her to know mommy has had it UPTOHERE with her grandparents.

Tell them you really appreciated it when they called you before they took him places, and that for some reason they stopped doing this and it is unacceptable. Tell them you need them to start calling you again to ask you first if they can take him places, especially to their vacation house. You say they take the other grandchild with them (without asking the parents first?) - and unless you stated otherwise, they may assume you are OK with it. So tell them it's not!

If I were you I'd also tell them straight out you have learned they are trying to get him to call people other than his parents "mom" and "dad" and this is totally unacceptable and they need to stop it.

As for not trusting others around them (criminals, etc), I agree with the other suggestion to meet them somewhere outside of their home.

You are in control, so start off slowly and let them earn your trust back.

As for getting into stuff, running around, etc. I think that's pretty normal stuff for a 3 year old. I think you should reconsider your expectations of this type of behavior. He's curious and he's learning, so of course he wants to investigate things. yeah, he may make a mess or knock stuff over or whatever, but he's just exploring his world.Remove anything from his reach that is dangerous or breakable, and let him make a mess, run around, etc. 3 year olds don't sit quietly for hours on end. Unless he's deliberately or maliciously destructive, it sounds like he's just doing normal kid stuff.

Best wishes.

Well first off, he is obviously missing his dad very much. Secondly, just because he gets food at school doesn't mean you cant feed him something, anything, just to make him happy. Children that age don't understand the concept of time, like in 30 min you'll eat, they just know they have a need that they are relying on you to meet and you aren't meeting it. I would never withhold a snack from a child. If you don't want him eating a full breakfast at home, how about a granola bar or something so he feels as if he's eating?

Secondly, 3 year olds don't understand "you'd better have a different attitude", they react to their environment and right now he's not happy in his. Obviously something is going on in your home because you mentioned you don't want to talk about it.

I can't imagine what kind of job would be worth it for a man to be so far away from his wife and son unless he's making close to a million a year. The separation is only going to make things worse as your son grows up.

If the fits continue I would consider going to a pediatrician and asking about a counselor who specializes in play therapy. Obviously whatever is going on in your home your child is picking up on and it's upsetting him. I wouldn't discipline him too much if there is a situation at home and he's reacting to it. Children don't know how to talk about their feelings, so they act them out.

I mean look at what you said, he went from seeing grandparents weekly and dad and being with you to not being allowed to be around his grandparents, rarely seeing his dad and being thrown into a daycare half the week. WAY too many changes too quickly.

Whatever issue you have with the inlaws you need to talk to them about it. He has a right to see his grandparents and he is obviously upset about it. It's not fair to tear him away from them just because you are angry with them. I would let them know they can come over to the house and see him, or they can take him out to eat in your part of town, but that if they are gone longer than 3 or 4 hours you'll stop all visitation again.

Hope it all works out.

Sorry but the grandparents are way out of line and the issues with them you describe sound dangerous and downright odd. Telling your 3 yr old to call other relatives mom and dad? Having unkempt animals that could give a child a bite or disease? Taking your child without permission hours away with intentions of staying for days?

If that were happening with my kids, contact would be cut off with those people. I don't think a 3 yr old should be around people that have no respect for the child, their parents or quite frankly the law. Having criminals in their home and on trips? One raid from the cops and there could be a dangerous situation for the child.

The best interest of the child is not to be alone or even around these people. And they are not the OP's family, they are her husband's family. When he is in town again, it is his issue to discuss possible outings or meet-ups/boundaries/acceptable conduct in front of the child.

OP, I'd focus on positive reinforcement with your child. If you catch him in a good mood, doing what you want him to, praise him A LOT. He will see he gets more attention from the good behavior and will start to do it more. Don't make a huge deal over the fits. Just walk away, let him get over it, and work on redirecting his energy/anger to more positive things.

I'd definetly stay away from the in-laws. Being labeled a 'grandparent' doesn't mean you get a free pass to act irresponsible and rude. If anyone took my child to a vacation home without telling me, or told him to call people mom/dad, they'd never be around my child again, relative or not. You did the right thing pulling the plug on the visits, let your husband work out boundaries/rules with them, it's his issue.

And your mother in law pocket dialed you and you heard her bad-mouthing you and your husband to your 3 yr old?

That's abusive, IMO, and would be a reason to cease contact. He may miss the routine of visiting them now, but ultimately as his mother you made the right choice for your son to not be around people behaving poorly that are supposed to love him.

I don't care how much they 'hate' you, they crossed several boundaries that to me, are unacceptable.

What does your husband think of their behavior? Were they like this when he was a child?

I have to agree with the above in many respects. I don't believe that just because someone is family they get a free pass either. There are times when family crosses the line and you don't always have to have a relationship with them. If they can work it out great, but this situation sounds pretty strange to me. I appreciate the relationship kids and grandparents can have, but I don't think it is a must, especially when the grandparents aren't respectful of the parents.

Originally Posted by Alexa5

I have to agree with the above in many respects. I don't believe that just because someone is family they get a free pass either. There are times when family crosses the line and you don't always have to have a relationship with them. If they can work it out great, but this situation sounds pretty strange to me. I appreciate the relationship kids and grandparents can have, but I don't think it is a must, especially when the grandparents aren't respectful of the parents.

I don't think that family deserves a "free pass" either. In fact, I am one of the first people to advocate cutting family lose if they are causing you more harm than good. However, this situation is different because just weeks before, OP was more than happy to hand over her parenting duties to the grandparents on a REGULAR basis. How do you go from dropping your kid off a few nights a week for overnights/full-time care, to suddenly no contact whatsoever because they are horrible people? As parents, most of us are always on the look-out for the safety of our children, so unless everything at the grandparents house suddenly got strange/dangerous overnight, then OP should have ended the sleepovers long ago. I'm guessing OP dropped him off at grandparents? If so, then she'd have ample opportunity to check the environment for safety concerns. As far as the other oddities, again, they could all be avoided by having supervised visits (with OP staying with her son during visits or even avoiding the grandparents house all together and meeting in public). My sister was using my dad for free babysitting and was dropping him off for overnights at my dad's campground. It became clear to her that it was not a good environment for her son (the campground had a lot of drinking, swearing, racial stuff, some sketchy folks, etc.), so my sister stopped the overnight visits. Instead of stopping all visits with the grandparents, they simply meet for lunch, dinner, etc. or my sister hangs out while her son is there to ensure his safety. I have a similar situation with my in-laws (they are alcoholics) and even though they are great with my kids, I would never allow them to "babysit" despite the fact that they are part of my family.
My point in all of this is that it seems to me that there is more going on with OP. Again, it sounds to me like this is more about OP not getting along with grandparents and unfortunately, her son is now being punished (indirectly) because he is no longer allowed to have any relationship at all with the people who he used to spend a great deal of time with. It just doesn't make sense why OP can't meet them for lunch for an hour somewhere? If they are such horrible people, she should have seen that long ago and tailored her visits accordingly - not dropped him off for overnights into Lord knows what....

Well, when the grandparents started taking the son hours away without permission, stopped answering the phone when they had the son, said bad things about the OP to her son, allowed drug addicts and random girls in and out of the home while the son is there, told the son to call other people mom and dad, and just general disrespect for the OP, they lost their chance to see him.

A 3 yr old can't defend themselves, that's what their parents are for. If even one of those incidents happened with my in laws, I'd not visit with them either. The OP giving them extra chances after the vacation home incident, drug addict hanging around, etc shows how much she tried to keep the relationship.

I think the fits at 3 yr old is common and with some work will calm down.

I'd move up north to be with my husband and son's father and leave these nut jobs behind.

If you are describing the situation honestly and objectively I would strongly suggest keeping your son away from this situation.

Why are drug addicts and criminals around? Are they friends of the daughter? The situation sounds awfully sketchy to me.

Take your son to his paediatrician to rule out any medical issues he may have and tell him your concerns (without your son in the room). Then you might want to consider finding a really good child psychologist who specialises in play therapy. My younger son saw a therapist for awhile and he loved going to visit her. He played in the sandbox while she gently guided him to express himself.

I used to have great chats with my sons while we were driving in the car. They would be in the backseat so there was no eye contact which made it easier for them and I kept it light.

It is essential that you do not dig for information or ask leading questions of your son.

As far as your son being a "terrible one year old", some kids are way more challenging than others. My older son was a "terror" and now he is a mature, intelligent, responsible, and charismatic 21 year old. I am biased but I lived through those years with him when everyone blamed me for poor parenting when a lot of it had to do with his temperament. I made mistakes but I did my best without the support from his grandparents or his father.

My second son was so much easier.

Originally Posted by Lux~Love

Recently I was informed by his older cousin, that my in laws have been trying to get my son to call their OTHER son (my husbands brother, the one that lets them control him) daddy. I of course starting freaking the heck out asking them why they would do that. Then big mouth cousin said that they have tried to get my son to call "D" mom. Yeah, getting pretty weird. Theres a lot more that I could go on about but I feel like this is just a tiny insight into how crazy these people are.

Good heavens. Keep your child away from this set of grandparents until you know for sure what on earth is going on. There is a chance your son is getting pretty confused about who "mom" is. There is a "mom" here, and then there is another "mom" elsewhere.... yipes.

Tell your husband about your concerns. Since he is totally on board with you, there is no reason for him not to start to see if you and your son can go live with your dh where is his working, especially if it is long term. Sure, it will be hard just you and your child, but I can only see you leaving your child in the grandparents' custody for no more than an overnight stay. They seem terribly toxic, and a bit selfish not to tell you where they are planning to take your son for days on end.

My concern is that in toxic families, sometimes there is that control where they try to take custody from the parents. Since you and your dh are not living under the same roof currently, there is a concern what they will do or say about it. I know a couple who is taking care of the man's niece, and his side of the family has been unusually toxic towards the custody issue. You would think your own relatives would work with you, not against you for the sake of the child...

Wow, lots of responses! I am not so good at being clear to those to who arent seeing the situation from my perspective, so I am sorry if I have not given enough details in my previous posts.

My husband completely agrees with keeping our child from the in laws. My son and I are considering moving up north with my husband. We are waiting right now to see what his schedule will be like when he actually starts working (should be mid-october). Right now they are saying he will be home every night and his schedule will be 2 weeks on 1 week off which is GREAT! However I would hate to move up there and end up having him be gone every night for two weeks straight. He works in oilfield and LOVES his job. He graduated with a degree in business and 2 engineering degrees and he tried a desk job for a while and hated it.

Now as far as the criminal goes, she is not related to my in laws. She is their sons ex girlfriend and the mother of his child. She does drugs, steals, and lies. She used to not ever see her child but the last few months she has made a big show of being at all of her daughters events (recitals, school functions, etc) and holidays. She never used to do that. Even though it makes my brother in law (and us!) uncomfortable that shes around, my in-laws let her come around because they are scared she will take their granddaughter away and they will never see her again. They also push for their son and her to get back together even though the two have NEVER had a healthy relationship and I don't think they ever will.

Their oldest son is obviously their favorite child because even at the age of 30, he lets them control everything he does. When they make my son call their other granddaughter (his cousin) sister, and call their other son "dad" that really worries me. Like someone else stated before, its not healthy for my son at all.

Their unclean living conditions may not seem that bad to some people, but I am a huge germ-a-phobe. Like I said, their dogs are disgusting, and they let my son lay on the dogs and let the dogs lick him. They have an inside dog that is not house trained and they don't clean it up. They got most of these pets just this year. Before that, they had a couple dogs that pretty much minded their own business and never really hung around the house (they live out in the country).

And someone above said that I "dumped my son off for days at a time and took it away." Well, if thats how you see it then fine. Before I started noticing all these things going on, I would let him go over there a couple times a week. I used to think it was good for him to get away from me for a little while and interact with other people and have different things to play with for a few hours. And in that time I could clean my house (and actually get it clean) or run to the grocery store, or schedule doctors appointments in that time, etc.

It worked out great until this year when we started getting lied to and they let "D" come around all the time. My son would come home saying things like "grandma says I live at her house, not mommas house."

We thought that daycare would be good for him, to get time with people who aren't family and other kids his age. As far as learning goes, we have workbooks at home, but I think he learns better when it is someone OTHER than his mommy thats teaching him. Plus my doctor tells me that I will probably have to start physical therapy a couple times a week for my arthritis, so if I ever need to go, I can go while hes at day care.

The fits have gotten MUCH better because we have made it very clear that they will not be tolerated. He had one yesterday and immediately stopped when I told him "no whining, use your words and tell me whats wrong."

OP, you and your husband made the right choice to stop contact with his family. Your son is only 3, and it sounds terrible how they were treating him. I hope you do get to move up north and live as a family, focus on the 3 of you. I'd leave the loonies behind.

Glad the fits have gotten better. Usually, once kids see that they can't get away with something, they tend to curb their behavior. Good luck!

Originally Posted by Lux~Love

Wow, lots of responses! I am not so good at being clear to those to who arent seeing the situation from my perspective, so I am sorry if I have not given enough details in my previous posts. My husband completely agrees with keeping our child from the in laws. My son and I are considering moving up north with my husband. We are waiting right now to see what his schedule will be like when he actually starts working (should be mid-october). Right now they are saying he will be home every night and his schedule will be 2 weeks on 1 week off which is GREAT! However I would hate to move up there and end up having him be gone every night for two weeks straight. He works in oilfield and LOVES his job. He graduated with a degree in business and 2 engineering degrees and he tried a desk job for a while and hated it. Now as far as the criminal goes, she is not related to my in laws. She is their sons ex girlfriend and the mother of his child. She does drugs, steals, and lies. She used to not ever see her child but the last few months she has made a big show of being at all of her daughters events (recitals, school functions, etc) and holidays. She never used to do that. Even though it makes my brother in law (and us!) uncomfortable that shes around, my in-laws let her come around because they are scared she will take their granddaughter away and they will never see her again. They also push for their son and her to get back together even though the two have NEVER had a healthy relationship and I don't think they ever will. Their oldest son is obviously their favorite child because even at the age of 30, he lets them control everything he does. When they make my son call their other granddaughter (his cousin) sister, and call their other son "dad" that really worries me. Like someone else stated before, its not healthy for my son at all. Their unclean living conditions may not seem that bad to some people, but I am a huge germ-a-phobe. Like I said, their dogs are disgusting, and they let my son lay on the dogs and let the dogs lick him. They have an inside dog that is not house trained and they don't clean it up. They got most of these pets just this year. Before that, they had a couple dogs that pretty much minded their own business and never really hung around the house (they live out in the country). And someone above said that I "dumped my son off for days at a time and took it away." Well, if thats how you see it then fine. Before I started noticing all these things going on, I would let him go over there a couple times a week. I used to think it was good for him to get away from me for a little while and interact with other people and have different things to play with for a few hours. And in that time I could clean my house (and actually get it clean) or run to the grocery store, or schedule doctors appointments in that time, etc. It worked out great until this year when we started getting lied to and they let "D" come around all the time. My son would come home saying things like "grandma says I live at her house, not mommas house." We thought that daycare would be good for him, to get time with people who aren't family and other kids his age. As far as learning goes, we have workbooks at home, but I think he learns better when it is someone OTHER than his mommy thats teaching him. Plus my doctor tells me that I will probably have to start physical therapy a couple times a week for my arthritis, so if I ever need to go, I can go while hes at day care. The fits have gotten MUCH better because we have made it very clear that they will not be tolerated. He had one yesterday and immediately stopped when I told him "no whining, use your words and tell me whats wrong."

But weren't you the one dropping your son off at their house? If the house was so disgusting, why on Earth would you drop him off there? It truly is difficult for me to understand because these were not just short, little visits - theses were overnights (or what I would consider "full-time" care for that period of time). There is absolutely no way that I would allow anyone (even family) to watch my kids for ANY length of time unless I was pretty darn clear about the environment in which they were going in to. Like I said before, my in-laws are alcoholics and my children spend time with them when we are there too. I get that perhaps some of the weird things sort of became clear to you over time, but it would seem to me like you would have some sort of gut feeling that these people were not right...
I guess none of that matters now. If you believe that they were causing your son harm, then it's good that you made some changes (better late than never). However, you will have to expect that perhaps your son will miss spending time with them and it may manifest in different ways (like tantrums for example). I think that moving sounds like a good idea and I wish you and your family the best

Originally Posted by MarneeB

OP to me it sounds like your son is a normal little boy. I don't understand the comment you made about him being a 'terrible 1 year old'. It's normal and expected for a 1 year old to be curious and get into everything, and I wouldn't call that getting 'into trouble'. He's had some big changes recently, so of course he might react to them. I also wanted to add to please make sure he's being treated properly at the daycare. You can never be too careful. It sounds like you're a young mother (please don't be offended) and are just frustrated with his tantrums. He gets frustrated too and the tantrums might be the only way he knows how to deal with it right now. Hang in there

my thoughts exactly. I also think you are being too hard on a 3 year old that does not have the full ability to express himself and know what is going on. he is small and the daycare is a new experience for him, logically he will have a stomach-ache. my 6 year old gets the serious talks but never when he was 3. when he changed daycare at 4 he was crying everyday for 2 weeks about going there until he settled in nicely, giving him a hard time about it was the last thing that would have fixed the situation.

Originally Posted by Lux~Love

My husband completely agrees with keeping our child from the in laws. My son and I are considering moving up north with my husband. We are waiting right now to see what his schedule will be like when he actually starts working (should be mid-october). Right now they are saying he will be home every night and his schedule will be 2 weeks on 1 week off which is GREAT! However I would hate to move up there and end up having him be gone every night for two weeks straight. He works in oilfield and LOVES his job. He graduated with a degree in business and 2 engineering degrees and he tried a desk job for a while and hated it.

Would you prefer two weeks alone with your child, or two weeks coping with your in-laws taking over your parental controls? You have to know without a doubt what you want or would put up with. Is moving near your own side of the family an option?