Workplace Is this insult acceptable?
- Thread starter bagnshoofetish
- Start date
I think I would NOT make all these recommendations the posters are making, unless someone wants to see this poor man lose his job. I wouldn't rock the boat over something so innocuous and they are correct - he can say it's a typo. Most of the states in the US are "at will" employment states, meaning they don't need a reason to fire you and can let you go at any time, for any reason. I sure wouldn't want to lose my job over a little slur, and unless your friend has LOTS of money for an attorney, I wouldn't recommend suing. No attorney would take this on a contingency fee basis. It's a lose lose situation. I'd let this slide and if this kind of thing continues, just look for a new job. This does not rise to the level of a legally-worthwhile lawsuit, nor would someone win. They would just lose their job, and possibly any chance at a decent reference. Also, unless you're leaving the city you live in, you can forget getting work anywhere else once ANY employer finds out you sued over something really so minor. And they will. Employers do reference checks these days, civil, criminal, and credit. This would follow your friend everywhere in the country, probably for the rest of his life if he were to sue for something like this and his chances of getting a decent job in the future would be unbelieveably damaged. I can't believe people are so quick to give advice on an anonymous forum that could really really damage someone's life. Yes, be supportive, call the guy a jerk - but recommending a lawsuit over a nasty email - wow - that could ruin this man's career and future. Future employers would view him as a wimp, a trouble-maker, and not someone that they would want as their employee. No one wants someone that is going to sue every time another employee has a bad day or doesn't watch their words to make sure they are nice and politically correct. No one really wants to hire someone that is going to be that kind of headache. People have bad days. They are human, and they say all sorts of things they shouldn't. If you're going to work in the workplace, a little thicker hide is worthwhile.
Please people - don't give advice that could really hurt someone, for a very long time. This does not fall under legally defensible discrimination laws, nor does it rise to the level that he was financially damaged as a result of the slur, which is a necessary component of winning in court in any discrimination matter. You have to have been damaged financially as a result. Being upset because someone didn't talk nice (whether justly upset or not), just will not cut it in any court of law in the country.
He is far better off quietly going about his business and looking for a new job with a nicer boss.
Please people - don't give advice that could really hurt someone, for a very long time. This does not fall under legally defensible discrimination laws, nor does it rise to the level that he was financially damaged as a result of the slur, which is a necessary component of winning in court in any discrimination matter. You have to have been damaged financially as a result. Being upset because someone didn't talk nice (whether justly upset or not), just will not cut it in any court of law in the country.
He is far better off quietly going about his business and looking for a new job with a nicer boss.
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Do you work with EEOC cases? I'm wondering how successful they are compared to a civil lawsuit.
Well, No. 1, this wouldn't qualify, and No. 2, they are tremendously difficult to win and extremely expensive. As I said - lawyers don't take these either pro bono or on a contingency fee basis because there is nothing in it for them. Likely the person would be paying anywhere from $250 to $500 per hour in legal fees. You're probably looking at $10,000 to $20,000, and then he won't win because there are no damages. I'm sure some unethical attorney might be willing to take his money though.
Why do you think it wouldn't qualify? Because I have to disagree about the EEOC. The email alone may not qualify, but the OP said this is the only 'written' example. There are others and, if there were witnesses, then yes it does qualify as 'creating a hostile work environment by discriminating based on race and/or nationality' under EEOC law.
You do not need a lawyer to file an EEOC claim.
Thanks for all the advice CMom. All really good to know. I have even advised the OP to tell her friend to start looking for a new job. However this boss/owner has a track record for this kind of behavior not only with her friend but with others in the office.
I don't think its a matter of developing thicker skin in this case though. The guy is making racists statements, I don't know how else anyone can take what he said. The OP has let me know he makes fun of her friends accent in person too. You can't stop a person from hating others unfortunately. Even by using the law. I think while looking for another job the person should document everything in case something major happens. It will at least show a pattern of abuse. The person does not live in my state (where you really have to watch what you say and do with employees) so I would at least make sure they have plenty of info if it did ever become a lawsuit.
Cmom, could all the employees in the office file a class action suit against this guy? I keep leaning towards that something should be done. It took a long time for women to have rights in the workplace not to be spoken to in a certain way - ignoring this just perpetuates the behavior towards people and is not right. A person can choose to be an ignorant a** all they want but they should not be able to spew their hate in the workplace.
I don't think its a matter of developing thicker skin in this case though. The guy is making racists statements, I don't know how else anyone can take what he said. The OP has let me know he makes fun of her friends accent in person too. You can't stop a person from hating others unfortunately. Even by using the law. I think while looking for another job the person should document everything in case something major happens. It will at least show a pattern of abuse. The person does not live in my state (where you really have to watch what you say and do with employees) so I would at least make sure they have plenty of info if it did ever become a lawsuit.
Cmom, could all the employees in the office file a class action suit against this guy? I keep leaning towards that something should be done. It took a long time for women to have rights in the workplace not to be spoken to in a certain way - ignoring this just perpetuates the behavior towards people and is not right. A person can choose to be an ignorant a** all they want but they should not be able to spew their hate in the workplace.
I agree they shouldn't spew hatred in the workplace and I'm vehemently against racism. However, the problem is that losing a job before having another can financially utterly devastate someone's life.
Yes - he can sue - probably won't be successful, and he'll need lots and lots and lots of money. Will it be worth it - probably not. He's not going to make millions off a "hostile work environment," even if he could prove it. And you might be surprised if push comes to shove if the other employees and going to want to risk their jobs and livelihoods as well. It's amazing how people fade into the woodwork when it comes to their own future. I just still think he'd be better off finding a better job. Look at Walmart - huge class action lawsuit - lots of employees, similar situation - only they weren't promoting. Those employees lost. And it went on for years and years. I'd venture to say that any of them that were actually named are not finding themselves number one on new employers' hiring lists.
Is it fair - absolutely not. But I absolutely don't think he would be able to find an attorney, nor do I think a suit would be successful. A boss can be a jerk - it doesn't necessarily rise to the level of a discrimination case.
But in answer to your question - no I don't think think it would rise to the level of a class action lawsuit. I think that would get thrown out by a judge.
The important thing is that the person think long and hard about the pros and cons and whether it's going to make things much worse for his life and future. This isn't a movie and its not Sally Fields in Norma Rae. Real life is much much different. Why doesn't he just look for a better boss? I've switched jobs because my boss was a jerk several times, and made sexist comments and it was an extremely hostile work environment. However, I do realize that I need to work and I don't want to make myself a figurehead with no future for the sake of making a point.
I HATE racism in all its forms. I just think that we can't change the world, as much as I wish we could, and ultimately, unless this man is independently wealthy, this could hurt him 1000 times more than it would his boss.
Yes - he can sue - probably won't be successful, and he'll need lots and lots and lots of money. Will it be worth it - probably not. He's not going to make millions off a "hostile work environment," even if he could prove it. And you might be surprised if push comes to shove if the other employees and going to want to risk their jobs and livelihoods as well. It's amazing how people fade into the woodwork when it comes to their own future. I just still think he'd be better off finding a better job. Look at Walmart - huge class action lawsuit - lots of employees, similar situation - only they weren't promoting. Those employees lost. And it went on for years and years. I'd venture to say that any of them that were actually named are not finding themselves number one on new employers' hiring lists.
Is it fair - absolutely not. But I absolutely don't think he would be able to find an attorney, nor do I think a suit would be successful. A boss can be a jerk - it doesn't necessarily rise to the level of a discrimination case.
But in answer to your question - no I don't think think it would rise to the level of a class action lawsuit. I think that would get thrown out by a judge.
The important thing is that the person think long and hard about the pros and cons and whether it's going to make things much worse for his life and future. This isn't a movie and its not Sally Fields in Norma Rae. Real life is much much different. Why doesn't he just look for a better boss? I've switched jobs because my boss was a jerk several times, and made sexist comments and it was an extremely hostile work environment. However, I do realize that I need to work and I don't want to make myself a figurehead with no future for the sake of making a point.
I HATE racism in all its forms. I just think that we can't change the world, as much as I wish we could, and ultimately, unless this man is independently wealthy, this could hurt him 1000 times more than it would his boss.
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You are still not addressing the difference between an EEOC Claim and a Civil Lawsuit. What you are talking about is a civil case. EEOC claims are not about making millions and I never implied they were.
bagnshoofetish, EEO Counselors are available to discuss this with him, confidentially, and they'll be honest if he can file a charge. But he has to contact them within 45 days of the incident. Just know that I personally know people who have filed EEOC Claims, won, stayed at their company for quite a while, and moved onward and upward to other jobs. There are two sides to this and your friend's friend just needs to hear both sides and facts, not emotions. But what ever your friend's friend decides is up to him and what he feels comfortable with. I wish him luck.
Exactly. The Feds file it on your behalf. At least initially. When I had a complaint, they made the initial contacts and the employer cowered. Employers don't want to fight these kinds of claims.
Which again is why I say to have the staff get together and make a group complaint. It will be much stronger than a single individual. Have them all sit down with the Boss and lay out what they see as the problem. If there is no change, go to the next step.
Don't make it about the one person or the email specifically so that that one person can't be targeted for retaliation. Make it about the pattern of behavior. The Boss isn't going to fire the whole staff.
I don't think its about making money off the claim. I think its about shutting up the boss. However I should not assume something about a person I don't know. I'm sure OP will PM me and let me know what her friend really wants out of it but so far from what she tells me, they know jobs are hard to come by (especially in their field) and they just want a respectful workplace. None of them want to lose their jobs (they sound like good jobs) or cause turmoil among themselves I assume.
Thanks!
I think this is a good way to start. Everyone will have to come to agreement and not get emotional for sure. It just sounds like this guy has intimidated everyone in the office.
Tell that to those poor air traffic controllers that ALL got fired at once. It can happen.
They were terminated because they were in violation of Federal law and were putting the lives of the public at imminent risk.
Not quite the same thing.