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blah956 · Oct 18th, 2009, 10:58 PM

even some items are "assembled" in the usa but the parts are made in other countries. or vice versa. yet still carry the tag "made in america"

shopping22 · Oct 18th, 2009, 11:12 PM

It changes nothing since market decides everything

shibumiflowers · Oct 18th, 2009, 11:40 PM

It's also a matter of trade imbalance. A large number of products are made in China and continue to be made there because whatever the products are, they meet the price point that North Americans are willing to pay for a certain level of quality. Traditionally, free-market trends would indicate a reciprocal relationship whereby the proceeds from these manufacturing firms set up in China would be used to purchase certain goods made in North America and so forth. But the trend is rather disturbing if you follow the reports - North Americans buy basically "junk" such as plastic goods, low quality, low quality materials, but cheap and the Chinese aren't buying the same things, they use dollars and US treasury holdings to purchase real value such as precious metals (as well as other types such as steel and copper), real estate and other commodities, as well as technologies. Witness Delphi, Airbus, IBM, etc. These types of technology industries are the cornerstones of North American and European holdings, and these very industries are being dismantled and sold to China. Strategically, it's dangerous and in terms of economics, it's suicide.

The trade imbalance isn't just in terms of dollars but in absolute value. I think that's where the crux lies in terms of a resuscitation of the American economy.

I was not surprised to read reports that the Chinese goverment has locked up the buying rights of various steel foundries, precious metal mines, and other real value commodities all over the world. At the same time, the Chinese state has formed alliances with various governments (no matter how illegitimate) in parts of Africa (some of these are tribal gov'ts) to basically colonize these areas and eventually placing a number of their citizens there. That in itself isn't bad or alarming but considering the geopolitical situation of these multilateral moves, it's scary for the rest of the world to sit by and just watch.

I know that this is the purse forum, I understand also that my interest here can be deemed frivolous or that my little act on the soapbox above, hypocritical. However, I try to be somewhat aware, I try to do my little part and temper my bag addiction with an equal investment in something less starkly ruled by caprice and fashion.

HandbagLuvr · Oct 18th, 2009, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by shibumiflowers

I'm not a clothing manufacturer, but am in the manufacturing industry. I would want clothes that are of high quality, well-made, beautifully designed, comfortable, made of sustainable materials regardless of where it's made. I am willing to pay a little more when the clothes meet these criteria. I think the same could be said for things other than clothes, too. Where it's made is not really something I look to first.

I am in the clothing manufacturing industry and I completely agree with you. I worked for a major retailer and had some high quality items coming out of China. It isn't as "cheap" as some may think to produce there. It all depends on the factory. Some only produce for high end brands and others only for low end. We also had a few items produced in NYC of all places (like once or twice) and the make was horrendous. The stitchers could not stitch a straight line on a pant that was supposed to retail for over $100. As others have stated American Apparel quality is not great and is produced here. We also produced some clothing in Italy and I found the quality to be the same as the stuff we produced in China. Good quality can come from many countries, but most quality clothing manufacturing in the US is gone. It is unfortunate because the US used to make a lot of high quality clothing.

If you are the hunt for some brands that do have quality US made products then I do know of a couple. Levis makes their Capital E line in California and it is very high quality. It is the only premium denim that I feel is worth the price tag. Abas accessories makes some of their leather goods in the US and they are very nice as well.

Jayne1 · Oct 19th, 2009, 12:10 AM

^^ Well, as I mentioned, I have not forgotten the recent recalls of Chinese-made pet foods for the North American market, children's toys (for Mattel) toothpaste, baby bibs (sold in Toys "R" Us ), tires, etc. China is gaining a reputation for goods that are shoddy and hazardous.

I would love to buy Made in Canada - but I can't find anything...

ETA - remember the discovery that P Diddy's Sean Jean supposedly "faux" fur jackets, (made in China) sold at Macys, were made out of real dog, cats and raccoon dog fur? How do we know what we're getting if we buy from China?

BgaHolic · Oct 19th, 2009, 05:57 AM

You are going to think I'm nuts but... about a year and a half ago I heard on the news about their finding lead in mugs and china dinnerwear. Well, this morning, when I was pouring my morning cup of coffee I found what looked like pencil marks on the inside bottom of my favorite coffee mug and started wondering, could that be traces of lead? The only way to find out is to bring it to a lab. If it is, I have to tell you, we as citizens, have to look after ourselves! BTW when I say Americans, I always mean to include our Canadian friends as well!!

HandbagLuvr · Oct 19th, 2009, 03:15 PM

[QUOTEETA - remember the discovery that P Diddy's Sean Jean supposedly "faux" fur jackets, (made in China) sold at Macys, were made out of real dog, cats and raccoon dog fur? How do we know what we're getting if we buy from China?[/QUOTE]

Yes I do remember that and it was bad. Even some faux furs on the market have turned out to be racoon dog fur too. I agree a lot of bad stuff is made there too. I don't buy any dog toys or food products that are made in China (and I would probably be the same if I had children), but I will buy clothing made in China if I feel the quality is good.

I am not sure if the issues with clothing manufacturing are specific to any single country. I feel it is up to the company who is using the factories (in whatever country that may be) to make sure that they are following either the law or the company's own code of ethics. I have a friend who moved to the US as a refugee when she was 12 and stitched jeans in a California sweat shop for awhile. Forever 21 got caught using sweat shop labor in California of all places (they were actually sewing in "Made in China" tags). Just think of how little they must have been paying the workers. Fake handbags are being made in NYC. The point is we can't be sure of what we are getting from anywhere. It is up to us as consumers to research the companies we want to buy from.

Myblackbag · Oct 19th, 2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by creighbaby

I just want quality clothes, regardless of where they are made.

Same here.

lovehermes · Oct 19th, 2009, 04:07 PM

I would love my clothing to say "Made in Detroit".

shibumiflowers · Oct 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Oh my god! I went to a meeting on Saturday in Kalamazoo and it was so depressing. Not the meeting but the entire area, situation, people, devastation. I know what you mean.

GhstDreamer · Oct 19th, 2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by shibumiflowers

It's also a matter of trade imbalance. A large number of products are made in China and continue to be made there because whatever the products are, they meet the price point that North Americans are willing to pay for a certain level of quality. Traditionally, free-market trends would indicate a reciprocal relationship whereby the proceeds from these manufacturing firms set up in China would be used to purchase certain goods made in North America and so forth. But the trend is rather disturbing if you follow the reports - North Americans buy basically "junk" such as plastic goods, low quality, low quality materials, but cheap and the Chinese aren't buying the same things, they use dollars and US treasury holdings to purchase real value such as precious metals (as well as other types such as steel and copper), real estate and other commodities, as well as technologies. Witness Delphi, Airbus, IBM, etc. These types of technology industries are the cornerstones of North American and European holdings, and these very industries are being dismantled and sold to China. Strategically, it's dangerous and in terms of economics, it's suicide.

Yet in the end it is the American multinationals who are winning and not the countries who have these hazardous plants stationed there - they send their manufacturing productions overseas to places they deem to be cheaper than the US/Canada and then take advantage of the citizens in those countries by not instituting worker safety protocols, benefits, etc. They suddenly become disassociated with their products, i.e. Apple has their products made in China - including the iphone and it was the plant making the iphones that was dumping hazardous wastes into the surrounding neighbourhoods/towns' water. Apple refused to clean up their act until they were pressured by other corporations like Sony to start cleaning up. The countries that have these manufacturing plants don't see a lot of that money - whatever profit is made, it gets funneled back to the US/Canada - basically back to their headquarters. It's a strategy to keep developing countries (third world nations) from ever becoming developed.

blah956 · Oct 19th, 2009, 09:45 PM

anyone watch the hbo documentary called "schmatta: rags to riches".

it talks about the textile industry and how it has progressed. it said that today, in 2009, only 5% of clothing is made in the USA. in 1985, it was 50%.

Gimmethebag · Oct 19th, 2009, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by HandbagLuvr

If you are the hunt for some brands that do have quality US made products then I do know of a couple. Levis makes their Capital E line in California and it is very high quality. It is the only premium denim that I feel is worth the price tag. Abas accessories makes some of their leather goods in the US and they are very nice as well.

Yes. The Capital E line takes as many as 40 workers to make a single pair.

AG Jeans has one of the last vertically integrated factories in the US. They are REALLY made in California, not just assembled elsewhere and then finished in CA.

Skif sweaters are knitted in St. Louis, MO. I believe Eskell is produced in Chicago.

One great way to "buy American" and support small businesses is to shop directly from indie designers via Etsy, etc. Build up these designers and they will become the next American brands.

MACsarah · Oct 19th, 2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by pink.couture

Well, a lot of things are made in different countries now days. I mean--I buy a lot of primp/american apparel/hudson jeans but not all things are made in america, sadly. I think some LVs are made in the USA but some aren't. So what are you going to do make the SA go through all the speedys til she finds a US stamped bag..

Idk, in this world it's hard to do so. But if there was more of a selection, I would.

I've seen that happened, but for a "made in france" one.

Oh, and ladies, is buying something "made in Italy/france/etc." as bad as buying "made in China" products? or are we only supporting made in USA?

Originally Posted by Gimmethebag

One great way to "buy American" and support small businesses is to shop directly from indie designers via Etsy, etc. Build up these designers and they will become the next American brands.

How do we know these designers won't turn around, like many other designers, and have their stuff made in a sweatshop in China?

Gimmethebag · Oct 19th, 2009, 10:40 PM

^ If the designers know that they have a customer base that values American production, they will stick with it.

The problem is that most people just buy what is cheap. Or they don't really know brands/ care about fashion production. So many designers just put out cheap pieces that are "cute" and sell what they can.

I sell American brands at work. Some people will stop buying a brand if they switch production. But I also get people that will ask about our prices, I will tell them about the production and all they will say is, "SO?"

...Then usually, they leave. And I think to myself, that person will probably scream the loudest when THEIR job becomes outsourced to India or China. And they will scream for the government to help them bail out their bills because there's "no jobs in America any more."

Oct 18th, 2009, 11:12 PM	#32
shopping22 Member Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 2	It changes nothing since market decides everything
shopping22 Member Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 2

Oct 19th, 2009, 12:10 AM	#35
Jayne1 Working Canvas Joined: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 6,973	^^ Well, as I mentioned, I have not forgotten the recent recalls of Chinese-made pet foods for the North American market, children's toys (for Mattel) toothpaste, baby bibs (sold in Toys "R" Us ), tires, etc. China is gaining a reputation for goods that are shoddy and hazardous. I would love to buy Made in Canada - but I can't find anything... ETA - remember the discovery that P Diddy's Sean Jean supposedly "faux" fur jackets, (made in China) sold at Macys, were made out of real dog, cats and raccoon dog fur? How do we know what we're getting if we buy from China?
	__________________ Tweet http://twitter.com/lynn__f Last edited by Jayne1; Oct 19th, 2009 at 12:19 AM.

Oct 19th, 2009, 03:15 PM	#37
HandbagLuvr Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 138	[QUOTEETA - remember the discovery that P Diddy's Sean Jean supposedly "faux" fur jackets, (made in China) sold at Macys, were made out of real dog, cats and raccoon dog fur? How do we know what we're getting if we buy from China?[/QUOTE] Yes I do remember that and it was bad. Even some faux furs on the market have turned out to be racoon dog fur too. I agree a lot of bad stuff is made there too. I don't buy any dog toys or food products that are made in China (and I would probably be the same if I had children), but I will buy clothing made in China if I feel the quality is good. I am not sure if the issues with clothing manufacturing are specific to any single country. I feel it is up to the company who is using the factories (in whatever country that may be) to make sure that they are following either the law or the company's own code of ethics. I have a friend who moved to the US as a refugee when she was 12 and stitched jeans in a California sweat shop for awhile. Forever 21 got caught using sweat shop labor in California of all places (they were actually sewing in "Made in China" tags). Just think of how little they must have been paying the workers. Fake handbags are being made in NYC. The point is we can't be sure of what we are getting from anywhere. It is up to us as consumers to research the companies we want to buy from.
HandbagLuvr Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 138

Oct 19th, 2009, 04:07 PM	#39
lovehermes Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,502	I would love my clothing to say "Made in Detroit".
lovehermes Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,502	__________________

Oct 19th, 2009, 10:40 PM	#45
Gimmethebag Gimme Gimme Gimme Joined: Dec 2008 Location: STL-Nashville-Chicago Posts: 1,109	^ If the designers know that they have a customer base that values American production, they will stick with it. The problem is that most people just buy what is cheap. Or they don't really know brands/ care about fashion production. So many designers just put out cheap pieces that are "cute" and sell what they can. I sell American brands at work. Some people will stop buying a brand if they switch production. But I also get people that will ask about our prices, I will tell them about the production and all they will say is, "SO?" ...Then usually, they leave. And I think to myself, that person will probably scream the loudest when THEIR job becomes outsourced to India or China. And they will scream for the government to help them bail out their bills because there's "no jobs in America any more."
	__________________ Add Bubbles To Taste Follow me.

Oct 18th, 2009, 10:58 PM	#31
blah956 been down hearted Joined: Aug 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 737	even some items are "assembled" in the usa but the parts are made in other countries. or vice versa. yet still carry the tag "made in america"

Oct 18th, 2009, 11:40 PM	#33
shibumiflowers Member Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago area Posts: 331	It's also a matter of trade imbalance. A large number of products are made in China and continue to be made there because whatever the products are, they meet the price point that North Americans are willing to pay for a certain level of quality. Traditionally, free-market trends would indicate a reciprocal relationship whereby the proceeds from these manufacturing firms set up in China would be used to purchase certain goods made in North America and so forth. But the trend is rather disturbing if you follow the reports - North Americans buy basically "junk" such as plastic goods, low quality, low quality materials, but cheap and the Chinese aren't buying the same things, they use dollars and US treasury holdings to purchase real value such as precious metals (as well as other types such as steel and copper), real estate and other commodities, as well as technologies. Witness Delphi, Airbus, IBM, etc. These types of technology industries are the cornerstones of North American and European holdings, and these very industries are being dismantled and sold to China. Strategically, it's dangerous and in terms of economics, it's suicide. The trade imbalance isn't just in terms of dollars but in absolute value. I think that's where the crux lies in terms of a resuscitation of the American economy. I was not surprised to read reports that the Chinese goverment has locked up the buying rights of various steel foundries, precious metal mines, and other real value commodities all over the world. At the same time, the Chinese state has formed alliances with various governments (no matter how illegitimate) in parts of Africa (some of these are tribal gov'ts) to basically colonize these areas and eventually placing a number of their citizens there. That in itself isn't bad or alarming but considering the geopolitical situation of these multilateral moves, it's scary for the rest of the world to sit by and just watch. I know that this is the purse forum, I understand also that my interest here can be deemed frivolous or that my little act on the soapbox above, hypocritical. However, I try to be somewhat aware, I try to do my little part and temper my bag addiction with an equal investment in something less starkly ruled by caprice and fashion.

Oct 19th, 2009, 05:57 AM	#36
BgaHolic OP Love my Shih Tzu Joined: May 2009 Location: Autumn, Winter, Spring & Summer Posts: 672	You are going to think I'm nuts but... about a year and a half ago I heard on the news about their finding lead in mugs and china dinnerwear. Well, this morning, when I was pouring my morning cup of coffee I found what looked like pencil marks on the inside bottom of my favorite coffee mug and started wondering, could that be traces of lead? The only way to find out is to bring it to a lab. If it is, I have to tell you, we as citizens, have to look after ourselves! BTW when I say Americans, I always mean to include our Canadian friends as well!!

Oct 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM	#40
shibumiflowers Member Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Chicago area Posts: 331	Oh my god! I went to a meeting on Saturday in Kalamazoo and it was so depressing. Not the meeting but the entire area, situation, people, devastation. I know what you mean.

Oct 19th, 2009, 09:45 PM	#42
blah956 been down hearted Joined: Aug 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 737	anyone watch the hbo documentary called "schmatta: rags to riches". it talks about the textile industry and how it has progressed. it said that today, in 2009, only 5% of clothing is made in the USA. in 1985, it was 50%.

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