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Twilight78 · Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:27 PM

Sorry for the very long post. Last month I found a necklace I wanted to buy for a friend’s birthday. The listing stated it was new in box and the pictures showed that the tag was still attached. But just to be sure I emailed the seller asking if the necklace would come with a tag and she said yes. I BIN with confidence because the seller has a 3 days return policy. A few days pass by and I don’t hear anything from the seller. After 5 days I receive an automated message from Paypal stating that shipping information has been submitted to USPS. But when I try to track the package the following 2 days there is no update. I email the seller and she claims she dropped the package at the PO 2 days earlier, I decide to believe her and wait a bit longer, although 2 days earlier was a Sunday (?!). Finally after 2 more days the package is marked as processed by USPS (9 days after I paid for it). When I receive the package, surprise, surprise, there is no tag on the necklace, the box is quite dirty and belongs to a different necklace (description on the box doesn’t match necklace I bought) and although the necklace might be new, it doesn’t look new at all. I just can’t give this as a present and I contact the seller asking if I can return it. She said no problem because she has a lot of people interested in buying it. The day after I go to the PO and send it via Priority, insured, with signature required (I paid $575 for that necklace). I email the seller with the tracking number and she tells me she’s leaving for 5 days and she can’t sign for the package. I tell her, it’s ok, that the package would stay at the PO for 15 days and she could pick it up upon return. 5 days pass by and the seller is not picking up the package from the PO. I keep sending her messages and she answers with excuses. 12 days after the attempted delivery I contact Ebay and they tell me they would get in touch with the seller on my behalf and to contact them again in 7 days if no refund is received. After 3 days I receive an email from Paypal stating that a return payment is pending. I notice that the seller relists the necklace. But after a few days I get another email from Paypal saying that the echeck bounced and that they were going to attempt retrieving funds from the seller after 3 more days. Fed up I call Ebay again and they tell me that there is nothing they can do about it unless the echeck bounces one more time, then they can try to collect the money from the seller through a cc she has linked to her account. Is this true?! Am I going to have to wait one more week? Is there anything else I can do about this? I purchased the necklace on September 21, over a month ago and I don’t know how much longer I can wait. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

new.old.bag · Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:42 PM

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, you may wish to initiate a chargeback through your credit card issuer.

Twilight78 · Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by new.old.bag

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, you may wish to initiate a chargeback through your credit card issuer.

I wish, I paid with my checking account.

Raquelly · Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:49 PM

I agree at this point you can't keep waiting, if you did pay with CC I would definately do a charge back.

Oh sorry, just read your response!, I'm not sure what you can do but hope PP and ebay can help.

TXGirlie · Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:51 PM

If PP can't get the money, a chargeback may be in order.
I do find it scary that PP is going to try to get it from her CC...wonder if they would try to pull it from a checking account if she had one?

karmenzsofia · Oct 23rd, 2009, 04:37 PM

Looks like you're dealing with a deadbeat seller, who conveniently stalled so that you couldn't leave Neg feedback (the 30-day window closed a couple of days ago), unless you already did that.

I'm surprised the refund was coming in form of a e-check...PP shouldn't allow that, IMO. Anyway, it bounced, and if you were covered by buyer protection, PP should issue that refund directly to you and deal with the seller later. That's what the so-called protection is for. If the transaction had been done in another website, it would be a different story.

Question, given the email you got about the pending payment three days after you contacted eBay (after waiting for the seller to pick up the package for 12 days), does that mean the seller finally picked up the package and signed for it? What does the delivery status show when you track it? If it shows as delivered and signed for, PP should've given you the money back days ago. If the seller is avoiding the package, you might still be able to convince PP to issue the refund kuz you followed instructions and sent it back, and the seller has had more than enough time to pick it up (she's lying about the trip, too).

I would call PP again and insist on the refund from PP, reminding them that your refund is not supposed to be contingent on whether or not they recover the funds from the seller--that's their problem, not yours. Do not involve your CC yet; once you do that PP closes the case and you'll likely have to wait even longer for the CC case to be resolved, especially if that package makes its way back to you.

ETA: You're in the U.S., right?

Twilight78 · Oct 23rd, 2009, 05:19 PM

karmenzsofia, thank you so much for your answer. First of all, I'm sooo upset with Ebay right now, last time I spoke to the representative she told me I had 45 days to leave feedback, but she was obviously misinformed because I just checked and as you said, I can no longer leave it. I was planning to leave negative feedback once I had my money back, I didn't do it earlier because I honestly didn't want to negatively affect her sales, hoping that if she sold something my refund would have arrived faster.
I just tracked the package again and the last time USPS updated the status was when they attempted delivery. The seller didn't get in touch with me to let me know she received the item either, she just went ahead and relisted it, so I'm assuming it's in her possession.
I only spoke to Ebay, I never even contacted Paypal. I'll do that right away. And yes, I'm in the US.

karmenzsofia · Oct 23rd, 2009, 05:54 PM

Hmmm...if she has the bag, the tracking status should reflect it was delivered. While it makes no sense to list a bag she doesn't have in her possession, it looks like you're not dealing with a sensible person. So I wouldn't go by that...

First, I would call PP to see if I could get them to issue the refund. If you're told that they can't do that because the item shows up as awaiting delivery, then I would call the USPS main CS number and (a) explain what's going on and see if they have anything to offer, and (b) get the phone number and business hours of the seller's local post office. Call and speak to someone there; if you get nowhere with the first person you talk to, ask to speak to the manager or someone else. IMO, you need to find out if the package was picked up and signed for or not, and try to have them keep it there vs sending it back to you. Then again, if you get PP to issue the refund, you won't have to call anyone at the USPS.

I would be surprised if PP issues a refund if the package doesn't show as delivered, but it could happen given the delivery attempts and seller's crappy attitude. Stress to whomever you talk to at PP that you have followed PP instructions as per the user agreement, and if the seller isn't doing her part, then she should be the one risking a loss vs. you.

hotshot · Oct 23rd, 2009, 08:58 PM

^ agree.. would contact pp again and try to speak with a supervisor and remind

her about PP protection

Twilight78 · Oct 23rd, 2009, 11:55 PM

I called Paypal, and they said that yes, I do have buyer protection, but they will refund me only after they attemp to collect funds from the seller a second time. Apparently this is their standard procedure and there is nothing else they can do for me right now, I'll just have to wait and see what happens. On the bright side, I called Ebay again and they told me that I actually have 60 days to leave feedback, and I eventually found the leave feedback button in the order details page.

karmenzsofia · Oct 24th, 2009, 12:23 AM

I thought it was 30 days--didn't it used to be 30 days, or am I confusing it with something else?--but I found where it says 60. Well, that's good then! However, I still don't get why PP is waiting to make a second attempt at getting the money from the seller in order to refund you, unless tracking still shows that delivery was attempted vs. it being delivered already. Not sure what's going on...I'm probably missing something.

deekai · Oct 24th, 2009, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by karmenzsofia

I thought it was 30 days--didn't it used to be 30 days, or am I confusing it with something else?--but I found where it says 60. Well, that's good then! However, I still don't get why PP is waiting to make a second attempt at getting the money from the seller in order to refund you, unless tracking still shows that delivery was attempted vs. it being delivered already. Not sure what's going on...I'm probably missing something.

I always thought it was 60 days. When did it become 30 and then return to 60?

Apricot Summers · Oct 24th, 2009, 04:42 AM

I have a few questions to be clear, to make sure you are covered here.

First - you have 60 days to leave feedback on Ebay. You don't have to leave it yet, work on getting your money back.

Second, Ebay and their resolution process is a waste of time. You only have 45 days to file with Pay Pal to get your money back. Have you filed with Pay Pal, I mean officially?

If not you need to file a SNAD (significantly not as described) complaint NOW and escalate it immediately to a full claim. Provide the tracking number of the DC and state you have signature confirmation and that the item was already returned to the seller.

Does not matter one bit if Pay Pal can get the funds or not. Under the terms of the buyer protection policy that pertains to Ebay purchases, you are to receive your funds - it's not contingent upon recovery of the funds by Pay Pal from the seller.

I'd go ahead and file and escalate. Then call Pay Pal and tell their customer service it was already returned, you have the delivery confirmation information and you want the refund processed. usually Pay Pal can process the refund while you're on the phone with them.

In the meantime you can also file with the BBB against Pay Pal for failure to honor their own polices. You can also file with your state attorney general - something like an online complaint against Pay Pal that they aren't doing what they advertise. It might not do anything, but will probably add to the pile if anyone ever decides to do something about crappy Pay Pal.

Twilight78 · Oct 24th, 2009, 09:37 AM

Apricot Summers, I just filed an official dispute with Paypal and escalated it to a claim. I received a message from Paypal stating they asked additional info from the seller and that the seller has time until November 3rd to answer them. I guess this is their standard procedure. I'll call them right away and insist on an immediate refund.

redskater · Oct 24th, 2009, 10:01 AM

sounds like you are getting jerked around from both sides! I wish ebay would just be consistent with how they deal with these matters. there seems to be no rhyme or reason on how they handle every case. It causes so much needless stress because of it. I hope it all works out for you. Keep after them and stand your ground.

Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:27 PM	#1
Twilight78 OP Member Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Robland Posts: 531	Seller with return policy won't refund the payment. Sorry, long post. Sorry for the very long post. Last month I found a necklace I wanted to buy for a friend’s birthday. The listing stated it was new in box and the pictures showed that the tag was still attached. But just to be sure I emailed the seller asking if the necklace would come with a tag and she said yes. I BIN with confidence because the seller has a 3 days return policy. A few days pass by and I don’t hear anything from the seller. After 5 days I receive an automated message from Paypal stating that shipping information has been submitted to USPS. But when I try to track the package the following 2 days there is no update. I email the seller and she claims she dropped the package at the PO 2 days earlier, I decide to believe her and wait a bit longer, although 2 days earlier was a Sunday (?!). Finally after 2 more days the package is marked as processed by USPS (9 days after I paid for it). When I receive the package, surprise, surprise, there is no tag on the necklace, the box is quite dirty and belongs to a different necklace (description on the box doesn’t match necklace I bought) and although the necklace might be new, it doesn’t look new at all. I just can’t give this as a present and I contact the seller asking if I can return it. She said no problem because she has a lot of people interested in buying it. The day after I go to the PO and send it via Priority, insured, with signature required (I paid $575 for that necklace). I email the seller with the tracking number and she tells me she’s leaving for 5 days and she can’t sign for the package. I tell her, it’s ok, that the package would stay at the PO for 15 days and she could pick it up upon return. 5 days pass by and the seller is not picking up the package from the PO. I keep sending her messages and she answers with excuses. 12 days after the attempted delivery I contact Ebay and they tell me they would get in touch with the seller on my behalf and to contact them again in 7 days if no refund is received. After 3 days I receive an email from Paypal stating that a return payment is pending. I notice that the seller relists the necklace. But after a few days I get another email from Paypal saying that the echeck bounced and that they were going to attempt retrieving funds from the seller after 3 more days. Fed up I call Ebay again and they tell me that there is nothing they can do about it unless the echeck bounces one more time, then they can try to collect the money from the seller through a cc she has linked to her account. Is this true?! Am I going to have to wait one more week? Is there anything else I can do about this? I purchased the necklace on September 21, over a month ago and I don’t know how much longer I can wait. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:42 PM	#2
new.old.bag Member Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 603	Did you pay with a credit card? If so, you may wish to initiate a chargeback through your credit card issuer.
new.old.bag Member Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 603

Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:51 PM	#5
TXGirlie Lovin Purple! Joined: Jul 2008 Location: North Texas Posts: 9,651	If PP can't get the money, a chargeback may be in order. I do find it scary that PP is going to try to get it from her CC...wonder if they would try to pull it from a checking account if she had one?
	__________________ Looking for a MAGENTA MAC from the RM Fall 2009 Sample Sale! Plz. PM me if you see one for sale!

Oct 23rd, 2009, 04:37 PM	#6
karmenzsofia Life is Plan Z Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Tarot Card Posts: 14,888	Looks like you're dealing with a deadbeat seller, who conveniently stalled so that you couldn't leave Neg feedback (the 30-day window closed a couple of days ago), unless you already did that. I'm surprised the refund was coming in form of a e-check...PP shouldn't allow that, IMO. Anyway, it bounced, and if you were covered by buyer protection, PP should issue that refund directly to you and deal with the seller later. That's what the so-called protection is for. If the transaction had been done in another website, it would be a different story. Question, given the email you got about the pending payment three days after you contacted eBay (after waiting for the seller to pick up the package for 12 days), does that mean the seller finally picked up the package and signed for it? What does the delivery status show when you track it? If it shows as delivered and signed for, PP should've given you the money back days ago. If the seller is avoiding the package, you might still be able to convince PP to issue the refund kuz you followed instructions and sent it back, and the seller has had more than enough time to pick it up (she's lying about the trip, too). I would call PP again and insist on the refund from PP, reminding them that your refund is not supposed to be contingent on whether or not they recover the funds from the seller--that's their problem, not yours. Do not involve your CC yet; once you do that PP closes the case and you'll likely have to wait even longer for the CC case to be resolved, especially if that package makes its way back to you. ETA: You're in the U.S., right?
	__________________ Satisfied but wishing 4 a WTM Mini and an AP ~~* Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Or, more importantly, is it funny? Last edited by karmenzsofia; Oct 23rd, 2009 at 04:41 PM.

Oct 23rd, 2009, 05:54 PM	#8
karmenzsofia Life is Plan Z Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Tarot Card Posts: 14,888	Hmmm...if she has the bag, the tracking status should reflect it was delivered. While it makes no sense to list a bag she doesn't have in her possession, it looks like you're not dealing with a sensible person. So I wouldn't go by that... First, I would call PP to see if I could get them to issue the refund. If you're told that they can't do that because the item shows up as awaiting delivery, then I would call the USPS main CS number and (a) explain what's going on and see if they have anything to offer, and (b) get the phone number and business hours of the seller's local post office. Call and speak to someone there; if you get nowhere with the first person you talk to, ask to speak to the manager or someone else. IMO, you need to find out if the package was picked up and signed for or not, and try to have them keep it there vs sending it back to you. Then again, if you get PP to issue the refund, you won't have to call anyone at the USPS. I would be surprised if PP issues a refund if the package doesn't show as delivered, but it could happen given the delivery attempts and seller's crappy attitude. Stress to whomever you talk to at PP that you have followed PP instructions as per the user agreement, and if the seller isn't doing her part, then she should be the one risking a loss vs. you.
	__________________ Satisfied but wishing 4 a WTM Mini and an AP ~~* Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Or, more importantly, is it funny?

Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:49 PM	#4
Raquelly Member Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 321	I agree at this point you can't keep waiting, if you did pay with CC I would definately do a charge back. Oh sorry, just read your response!, I'm not sure what you can do but hope PP and ebay can help.

Oct 23rd, 2009, 05:19 PM	#7
Twilight78 OP Member Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Robland Posts: 531	karmenzsofia, thank you so much for your answer. First of all, I'm sooo upset with Ebay right now, last time I spoke to the representative she told me I had 45 days to leave feedback, but she was obviously misinformed because I just checked and as you said, I can no longer leave it. I was planning to leave negative feedback once I had my money back, I didn't do it earlier because I honestly didn't want to negatively affect her sales, hoping that if she sold something my refund would have arrived faster. I just tracked the package again and the last time USPS updated the status was when they attempted delivery. The seller didn't get in touch with me to let me know she received the item either, she just went ahead and relisted it, so I'm assuming it's in her possession. I only spoke to Ebay, I never even contacted Paypal. I'll do that right away. And yes, I'm in the US.

Oct 23rd, 2009, 08:58 PM	#9
hotshot Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,868	^ agree.. would contact pp again and try to speak with a supervisor and remind her about PP protection
hotshot Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,868

Oct 23rd, 2009, 11:55 PM	#10
Twilight78 OP Member Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Robland Posts: 531	I called Paypal, and they said that yes, I do have buyer protection, but they will refund me only after they attemp to collect funds from the seller a second time. Apparently this is their standard procedure and there is nothing else they can do for me right now, I'll just have to wait and see what happens. On the bright side, I called Ebay again and they told me that I actually have 60 days to leave feedback, and I eventually found the leave feedback button in the order details page.

Oct 24th, 2009, 12:23 AM	#11
karmenzsofia Life is Plan Z Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Tarot Card Posts: 14,888	I thought it was 30 days--didn't it used to be 30 days, or am I confusing it with something else?--but I found where it says 60. Well, that's good then! However, I still don't get why PP is waiting to make a second attempt at getting the money from the seller in order to refund you, unless tracking still shows that delivery was attempted vs. it being delivered already. Not sure what's going on...I'm probably missing something.
	__________________ Satisfied but wishing 4 a WTM Mini and an AP ~~* Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Or, more importantly, is it funny?

Oct 24th, 2009, 04:42 AM	#13
Apricot Summers Member Joined: Jul 2009 Location: West Coast Posts: 65	I have a few questions to be clear, to make sure you are covered here. First - you have 60 days to leave feedback on Ebay. You don't have to leave it yet, work on getting your money back. Second, Ebay and their resolution process is a waste of time. You only have 45 days to file with Pay Pal to get your money back. Have you filed with Pay Pal, I mean officially? If not you need to file a SNAD (significantly not as described) complaint NOW and escalate it immediately to a full claim. Provide the tracking number of the DC and state you have signature confirmation and that the item was already returned to the seller. Does not matter one bit if Pay Pal can get the funds or not. Under the terms of the buyer protection policy that pertains to Ebay purchases, you are to receive your funds - it's not contingent upon recovery of the funds by Pay Pal from the seller. I'd go ahead and file and escalate. Then call Pay Pal and tell their customer service it was already returned, you have the delivery confirmation information and you want the refund processed. usually Pay Pal can process the refund while you're on the phone with them. In the meantime you can also file with the BBB against Pay Pal for failure to honor their own polices. You can also file with your state attorney general - something like an online complaint against Pay Pal that they aren't doing what they advertise. It might not do anything, but will probably add to the pile if anyone ever decides to do something about crappy Pay Pal.

Oct 24th, 2009, 09:37 AM	#14
Twilight78 OP Member Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Robland Posts: 531	Apricot Summers, I just filed an official dispute with Paypal and escalated it to a claim. I received a message from Paypal stating they asked additional info from the seller and that the seller has time until November 3rd to answer them. I guess this is their standard procedure. I'll call them right away and insist on an immediate refund.

Oct 24th, 2009, 10:01 AM	#15
redskater bags,books & Kitties Joined: Jan 2008 Location: where the wind comes sweeping down the plain Posts: 1,884	sounds like you are getting jerked around from both sides! I wish ebay would just be consistent with how they deal with these matters. there seems to be no rhyme or reason on how they handle every case. It causes so much needless stress because of it. I hope it all works out for you. Keep after them and stand your ground.
	__________________ MY BAG COLLECTION http://forum.purseblog.com/album.php?albumid=2702

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