Is it illegal to mail counterfeit items using US postal service?

[jjyounger]

Originally Posted by moi et mes sacs

Such a waste of peoples money to mail back bags that are supposedly going to be destroyed. Why isnt a picture of the defaced item enough? Sounds too fishy.

Doesn't it, though? Extremely fishy! I was allowed by PayPal to destroy a bag rather than ship it back, but that was over a year ago. (Before they began reselling them?????)

[momoftwo]

Originally Posted by new.old.bag

It is a myth that it is illegal to mail them. It is illegal to use the US mail to SELL them, it is not illegal to mail them. It is also illegal to sell them if you use UPS or FedEx, there is wording in the law that makes it illegal. Some sellers of counterfeits think they are in the clear if they are mailing via UPS or FedEx but basically using any courier service to transport counterfeit goods for commerce, is ILLEGAL. Mailing it for other purposes is not illegal.

I think you are right on this one. I spoke with someone from the USPS who confirmed it with a postal inspector (deals with mail fraud) that it is OKAY to mail it back to PayPal to for purposes to be destroyed. I mentioned about it being a liquidating service address and PayPal might be reselling the items through that office. They suggested that I file a complaint with USPS fraud division on that one (800)372-8347. I have not done so yet.

[momoftwo]

Originally Posted by Ellie Mae

So when you mail it, put a COPY of the email from Paypal demanding that you mail the bag to them and saying it is NOT illegal IN THE BOX. At least then if the PO does open it for some reason, they have the letter from PAYPAL telling you to mail it and telling you that it is not illegal.... MAYBE?? And put PAYPAL's address as the TO and FROM address on the box!!

Unfortunately, USPS says it is not mail fraud if I am sending the bag to Paypal to be destroyed. But they say I can file a complaint to the Mail Fraud division if I suspect that they are reselling the bags.

[sarahkaris]

while you prob wont get caught, it's very illegal

[momoftwo]

Originally Posted by jjyounger

Doesn't it, though? Extremely fishy! I was allowed by PayPal to destroy a bag rather than ship it back, but that was over a year ago. (Before they began reselling them?????)

I tried and I tried. But they were adamant about me mailing it back in its original condition. I even spoke with their legal dept (so they say), and the lady was stiff and said she would "have a talk" with the supervisor who told me I was allowed to write "fake" on the inside of the bag. Even then, she said there were no notes that the supervisor ever told me that, suggesting that I was making that up. She said that they make NO exceptions for anyone. She threatened that if the bag did not arrive in its original condition, PayPal will not give me a refund. They are such bullies.

Yes, dragonlady's thread was the one I read that alerted me to confront PayPal to begin with.

[HandbagAngel]

I wonder if you ask their "supervisor" why the Dallas address is liquidation.com's address, what they would say?

Yes, you have to mail the bag back in certain days, otherwise you won't get your money back. PayPal is holding us as hostages.

[jjyounger]

Originally Posted by momoftwo

I think you are right on this one. I spoke with someone from the USPS who confirmed it with a postal inspector (deals with mail fraud) that it is OKAY to mail it back to PayPal to for purposes to be destroyed. I mentioned about it being a liquidating service address and PayPal might be reselling the items through that office. They suggested that I file a complaint with USPS fraud division on that one (800)372-8347. I have not done so yet.

Now THAT is interesting. It was someone at my local Post Office who told me that it was illegal to ship a counterfeit item via USPS. (I am in there all the time and we talk about eBay a lot.) USPS may have changed their policy on this since I last discussed it with her. Perhaps the purpose matters, since it will be destroyed (HAH!) once it arrives. Don't lose the telephone number. We may all need it!!!

Unfortunately, sweetie, I think you need to just go ahead and send the $^&# bag to PayPal and get your refund. I was able to destroy the bag that I had, but that was last year. I also know that tPFer missy_attitude was allowed by PayPal to do the same thing two weeks or so ago. However, she is in Australia, which may matter. You might want to PM her about this.

[bunnymasseuse]

Just keep the documentation of everything, in case you'd ever need to prove someone else approved your actions.

[momoftwo]

Originally Posted by HandbagAngel

I wonder if you ask their "supervisor" why the Dallas address is liquidation.com's address, what they would say? Yes, you have to mail the bag back in certain days, otherwise you won't get your money back. PayPal is holding us as hostages.

Well, I did ask her why it is a liquidation address and she said that they share the same facility or building and they destroy the bags for them. It doesn't make any sense. She said I am getting my information online and they are inaccurate. They get pissy (all women but one) and I am surprised with the quality of the employees of such a big company. I even emailed them about it 2X from the Help page and I got NO response. I don't get it.

I caved, I mailed the bag to PayPal. There is a deadline and I am going to try to recoup my losses.

[momoftwo]

Originally Posted by jjyounger

Now THAT is interesting. It was someone at my local Post Office who told me that it was illegal to ship a counterfeit item via USPS. (I am in there all the time and we talk about eBay a lot.) USPS may have changed their policy on this since I last discussed it with her. Perhaps the purpose matters, since it will be destroyed (HAH!) once it arrives. Don't lose the telephone number. We may all need it!!! Unfortunately, sweetie, I think you need to just go ahead and send the $^&# bag to PayPal and get your refund. I was able to destroy the bag that I had, but that was last year. I also know that tPFer missy_attitude was allowed by PayPal to do the same thing two weeks or so ago. However, she is in Australia, which may matter. You might want to PM her about this.

When I called my local USPS and some 800 USPS number, they all agreed that it was Mail Fraud too! They transferred me to the Postal Inspector's office who confirmed it is NOT fraud if it is mailed back to PayPal for destruction. I suppose the Postal Inspector has more authority on the subject.

[momoftwo]

Can they hold back my refund because I did not package it well? I was so mad, I stuffed it in a big envelope and taped it with 3M tape all over. Geez, now I hope PayPal does not penalize me for wrinkling the fake bag. Also, I just realized I forgot to include the cheapie dust bag. The nightmare continues...

Thank you so much to all for your suggestions and support. I will let you guys know as soon as I get a refund. Please cross your fingers for me.

[momoftwo]

To anyone who is following this - I finally got my FULL refund with PayPal. I lost, I mailed the counterfeit bag to them like they want me to in order to get the refund. Took a week, but I got my money. I just hope they don't resell this fake back to the public. When I get some time, I will call USPS Fraud to inquire about the liquidation address PayPal wants us to mail Fake stuff to.

[dressage queen]

i suspect it may not be illegal - while it IS illegal to sell or distribute counterfeit goods, but there's a good chance it's NOT an offense to transfer ownership of fake goods for the purpose of destruction. in that case, mailing them would not be mail fraud.

ETA - whoops! guess i should have read to the end . . . but i'm glad to be in agreement with the postmaster!

[gro3602]

Maybe next time this happens to one of us, the bag could be secretly marked somewhere.

Then we can all peruse ebay to see if it shows up.

Originally Posted by momoftwo

To anyone who is following this - I finally got my FULL refund with PayPal. I lost, I mailed the counterfeit bag to them like they want me to in order to get the refund. Took a week, but I got my money. I just hope they don't resell this fake back to the public. When I get some time, I will call USPS Fraud to inquire about the liquidation address PayPal wants us to mail Fake stuff to.

[MKWMDA]

It not illegal to transport counterfeit goods, regardless of carrier, if you do not have the intent or probable cause for intent to sell or distribute them. It is a federal offense to sell or distribute counterfeit goods, but in good ol USA it is NOT a crime to mail them without having sold them, and it is NOT a crime to be in posession of or use stolen goods, as long as there is no intent to sell/distribute, or probable cause to believe that you were going to sell/distribute them.

THAT being said, I believe that those involved in these disputes, and similar ones that perhaps havent been posted, should file a complaint with the US Postal Inspector.

PEOPLE NEED TO START REPORTING. Don't be afraid to file a complaint, I'm sure the postal inspectors would love nothing more than to take down Paypal.