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Ellie Mae · Oct 25th, 2009, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Lrenda

Yes this is the same girl and that is my bag in the listing.

I'll respond to all your questions below.

I listed in my description I had carried the bag for maybe two weeks. however I still consider that a "new" bag. I always list the amount of time I've carried a bag and if their are flaws I list that as well. I've purchased many bags on Ebay myself that are listed as New without tags and then the seller goes on to list if the bag was every carried. I dont have a problem with this.

The "pen marks" she is referring to are the distress of the leather. This feature is on every Moni Moni bag you purchase. I've had two and both have this circular rotation on them. Now for the soiling she said the bag had - there is NONE of that and I have pictures to back it.

The inside lining of the bag has an "old" look to it, again all moni moni bags do however there was absolutly NO wear on the inside of this bag.

Further more... as of today the buyer closed the PP claim. She said she did researched and learned what I was telling her was the truth about the circular rotation marks. She apologized, said she was sorry for the stress she caused. Asked if we could both leave good feedback.

Thanksfully - this is over

Lrenda.. I have to agree that in my mind "NEW" means never carried. Once carried, it has been used.
I am tho very glad that your buyer has closed her dispute!

Lrenda · Oct 25th, 2009, 05:30 PM

I'm not about to sit here and argue about this. I listed the amount of time the bag had been carried. Now.. had I not been honest about carrying the bag that would have been "SKEWED" up.

You're telling me when you purchase a bag, the day you carry it, it's no longer considered "new"?

Peoples opinions can differ on this. A few weeks back I purchased a Bulga bag where the tpfer listed "new without tags" and then went on to say the bag had been carried a few times. I had no problem with it.

I'm done with this
cheers!!

Ellie Mae · Oct 25th, 2009, 05:36 PM

Just an FYI... per Ebay HELP....
What "new" means

An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines:

It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer.
It has not been refurbished or used for any purpose.
It has no known defects or damages.

The point of posting this is in case of a claim or dispute, an item listed as NEW, and seller states "has been carried (used) for XXX"... if a buyer were to challenge the NEW condition, the seller would most likely lose the claim as the item would NOT comply w/ Ebay's definition of "NEW".

AmourCouture · Oct 25th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Lrenda- Don't worry, no one is attacking you

We just want to point out a mistake that actually a lot of people make. If you reread what people have posted on pages 2 and 3 there is much more important information. Your buyer has been scamming tPF members. You should be concerned about this.

To explain it gently from a buyers standpoint NWOT should only be used when you buy something, take the tags off, and do not use it and want to resell it. It isn't really just a matter or opinion, it is eBay policy. Alot of people make this mistake and suffer the consequences. It isn't new if it has been used...even if it was only a few times...even if it was only for a day. It is impossible to use something for 2 weeks and have it look the same as a new bag, KWIM?

I agree, I still consider items I've worn for a month "NEW", but since condition is such a subjective thing eBay has the policy in place the EM posted above. Just chalk it up to a mistake and a lesson learned. What we need to address here is the REAL problem of who your buyer is.

Now, what I am concerned about is the fact that your buyer is a known scammer and on tPF, has opened a dispute, but also opened a thread asking about ways to clean the bag. I want to ensure that she doesn't alter the bag in any way and then try to return it to you by doing a chargeback, which she has done in the past if I remember correctly?

gidramom · Oct 25th, 2009, 05:59 PM

I don't state any bags as new if I used more than once.
But I understand that many sellers state as new when items in excellent condition and I've seen and bought many of them in the past. Although OP listed NWT, she mentioned that the bag had been used. So buyer can have some sense to it...
But it certainly makes them prone to any SNAD claims. And each buyer has a different degree of expectation (that's a scary part).
Anyway, I'm grad it worked out in the end.

kellybonly · Oct 25th, 2009, 06:05 PM

How about "like new" or "as new"? That's how I would have described it. Then again, she said how many times she carried the bag so the buyer could decide if it is indeed new or like new. Anyways, glad it worked out for the seller.

mmmsc · Oct 25th, 2009, 06:55 PM

I believe that Ebay is saying that something "new" refers to something never used -- as in brand new in the box. Because they want to have huge retailers sell in bulk on ebay, not small sellers who sell their bags they no longer want to use. Ebay is changing, so get ready for small sellers to be screwed some more. They are trying to turn this into an Amazon-type selling site.
Nobody was bashing you, OP. It's just a fact that you have to cross the t's and dot the i's when you sell on ebay now. I am sorry you did not get to experience the old ebay when it was fun and more of a "community" instead of one more selling mall.
Glad this worked out for you. Unfortunately the buyer you got has had many problems with buying and selling in the past.

AmourCouture · Oct 25th, 2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by mmmsc;[B

Unfortunately the buyer you got has had many problems with buying and selling in the past[/B].

I encourage everyone to put known shady characters on IGNORE.

Ellie Mae · Oct 25th, 2009, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by AmourCouture

I encourage everyone to put known shady characters on IGNORE.

GOOD PLAN! This buyer's a piece of work. She needs to be ASHAMED of her past behaviors. Pffftt!

scyllabub · Oct 25th, 2009, 08:02 PM

Not personal to OP:

Describing a used item as "new", no matter how good a condition it is in, is an indication of the laissez faire mindset of a high proportion of sellers that causes so much disappointment and hassle to buyers on eBay. It's one of the reasons why eBay has had to skew the rules to favour buyers - at the expense of many darn good sellers as well as the bad ones.

People just don't get it

scylla

LindaP · Oct 25th, 2009, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ellie Mae

Just an FYI... per Ebay HELP....
What "new" means

An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines:

It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer.
It has not been refurbished or used for any purpose.
It has no known defects or damages.

The point of posting this is in case of a claim or dispute, an item listed as NEW, and seller states "has been carried (used) for XXX"... if a buyer were to challenge the NEW condition, the seller would most likely lose the claim as the item would NOT comply w/ Ebay's definition of "NEW".

Exactly. Since you carried your item for 2 weeks it did not meet Ebay's guidelines for 'new', and as a buyer I would expect a new bag to have never been used. It's good you stated in your listing that you used the bag but it can also be considered keyword scamming to use new in your description for a bag that has been used. Just something to watch for. As mentioned above, if it comes down to a claim and Ebay investigates and sees that you listed it as 'new' when it really wasn't, you stand a greater chance to lose your claim.

I'm glad it's all worked out for ya in the end though!

Linda

kellilicious · Oct 26th, 2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lrenda

You're telling me when you purchase a bag, the day you carry it, it's no longer considered "new"?

If you buy a new car, the day you drive it off the lot it's no longer "new".

New means never used. Period.

blah956 · Oct 26th, 2009, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by kellilicious

If you buy a new car, the day you drive it off the lot it's no longer "new".

New means never used. Period.

but even most "new" cars already have mileage on it from previous test drives

kellilicious · Oct 26th, 2009, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by blah956

but even most "new" cars already have mileage on it from previous test drives

Right....and most new bags have probably been tried on in stores

. Carried for two weeks does not equate 'new' to me. And ebay would probably agree.

Cheryl · Oct 26th, 2009, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Lrenda

A few weeks back I purchased a Bulga bag where the tpfer listed "new without tags" and then went on to say the bag had been carried a few times. I had no problem with it.

You bought the bag from a TPF member off the forum?

Oct 25th, 2009, 05:30 PM	#47
Lrenda OP Member Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 73	I'm not about to sit here and argue about this. I listed the amount of time the bag had been carried. Now.. had I not been honest about carrying the bag that would have been "SKEWED" up. You're telling me when you purchase a bag, the day you carry it, it's no longer considered "new"? Peoples opinions can differ on this. A few weeks back I purchased a Bulga bag where the tpfer listed "new without tags" and then went on to say the bag had been carried a few times. I had no problem with it. I'm done with this cheers!!
	__________________ It's really sad when you walk into a store and you're looking at a fabulous bag and your 3yr old son says "Mommy, you dont need another purse!!!"

Oct 25th, 2009, 05:36 PM	#48
Ellie Mae KIABCRS Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,315	Just an FYI... per Ebay HELP.... What "new" means An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines: It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer. It has not been refurbished or used for any purpose. It has no known defects or damages. The point of posting this is in case of a claim or dispute, an item listed as NEW, and seller states "has been carried (used) for XXX"... if a buyer were to challenge the NEW condition, the seller would most likely lose the claim as the item would NOT comply w/ Ebay's definition of "NEW".
Ellie Mae KIABCRS Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,315	__________________ *http://scams-n-shams.blogspot.com*

Oct 25th, 2009, 05:57 PM	#49
AmourCouture Vintage Chic Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,979	Lrenda- Don't worry, no one is attacking you We just want to point out a mistake that actually a lot of people make. If you reread what people have posted on pages 2 and 3 there is much more important information. Your buyer has been scamming tPF members. You should be concerned about this. To explain it gently from a buyers standpoint NWOT should only be used when you buy something, take the tags off, and do not use it and want to resell it. It isn't really just a matter or opinion, it is eBay policy. Alot of people make this mistake and suffer the consequences. It isn't new if it has been used...even if it was only a few times...even if it was only for a day. It is impossible to use something for 2 weeks and have it look the same as a new bag, KWIM? I agree, I still consider items I've worn for a month "NEW", but since condition is such a subjective thing eBay has the policy in place the EM posted above. Just chalk it up to a mistake and a lesson learned. What we need to address here is the REAL problem of who your buyer is. Now, what I am concerned about is the fact that your buyer is a known scammer and on tPF, has opened a dispute, but also opened a thread asking about ways to clean the bag. I want to ensure that she doesn't alter the bag in any way and then try to return it to you by doing a chargeback, which she has done in the past if I remember correctly?
AmourCouture Vintage Chic Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,979	__________________ Luxury Goods ~ Consignment ~ Trunks & Luggage Last edited by AmourCouture; Oct 25th, 2009 at 06:02 PM.

Oct 25th, 2009, 05:59 PM	#50
gidramom Member Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 473	I don't state any bags as new if I used more than once. But I understand that many sellers state as new when items in excellent condition and I've seen and bought many of them in the past. Although OP listed NWT, she mentioned that the bag had been used. So buyer can have some sense to it... But it certainly makes them prone to any SNAD claims. And each buyer has a different degree of expectation (that's a scary part). Anyway, I'm grad it worked out in the end.
	__________________ Last edited by gidramom; Oct 25th, 2009 at 06:03 PM.

Oct 25th, 2009, 06:05 PM	#51
kellybonly Member Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 11	How about "like new" or "as new"? That's how I would have described it. Then again, she said how many times she carried the bag so the buyer could decide if it is indeed new or like new. Anyways, glad it worked out for the seller.
kellybonly Member Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 11

Oct 25th, 2009, 06:55 PM	#52
mmmsc monachus animadverto Joined: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,832	I believe that Ebay is saying that something "new" refers to something never used -- as in brand new in the box. Because they want to have huge retailers sell in bulk on ebay, not small sellers who sell their bags they no longer want to use. Ebay is changing, so get ready for small sellers to be screwed some more. They are trying to turn this into an Amazon-type selling site. Nobody was bashing you, OP. It's just a fact that you have to cross the t's and dot the i's when you sell on ebay now. I am sorry you did not get to experience the old ebay when it was fun and more of a "community" instead of one more selling mall. Glad this worked out for you. Unfortunately the buyer you got has had many problems with buying and selling in the past.

Oct 25th, 2009, 08:02 PM	#55
scyllabub London, UK Joined: Dec 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 319	Not personal to OP: Describing a used item as "new", no matter how good a condition it is in, is an indication of the laissez faire mindset of a high proportion of sellers that causes so much disappointment and hassle to buyers on eBay. It's one of the reasons why eBay has had to skew the rules to favour buyers - at the expense of many darn good sellers as well as the bad ones. People just don't get it scylla

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