Originally Posted by eminere™

First off, thanks for starting this thread, averagejoe. Now about the collection... Oh dear, I really don't like it. I think we all knew what Dior was getting itself into when they appointed Raf - this is a man who has carved a name for himself by his minimalist aesthetic - but this is almost too bare. The fabrics and the majority of the colour palette are so sobre that they evoke the very solemnity of the wartime era that Monsieur Dior sought to alleviate with his creations. And gone are the layers of silk tulle, organza, chiffon, light as froth and declined in degrade colours, that marked the House's complete mastery of the material and therefore control of lightness, an essential hallmark of haute couture. Where is the joy in this collection? I can't help but feel that the very quintessence, the raison d'être, of the House is missing here. Moreover, so many of the looks still look like they could've come from anyone's ready-to-wear collection. Perhaps I need to look at them in high-res before the handwork becomes apparent, but this in a way betrays the lack of an immediate impression of mystique, wonder, awe. None of these qualities are immediately apparent. I don't think the antidote to grandeur is necessarily simplicity. Consider how look #10 so closely resembles a look from the recent Cruise 2013 collection! http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8982/comparisonc.jpg I can't believe I am saying this but I think I actually prefer Bill's last couture collection... At least the dresses there still contained some fantasy. There was whimsy. This is all just my 2c of course; I'm looking forward to reading the reviews of the editors, journalists and commentators in the industry.

I agree, while I can see Raf had put in his own interpretation of the Dior brand and he's taken into account M'sieur Dior's New Look style, I don't see Dior. Probably because Galliano had wowed me so much with his theatrical/dramatic runways, and even Gaytten gave the subtle elegance to his shows (Dior's Paris boutique, light coloured background settings), Raf's choice of a strong blue background is a bit too much.

Originally Posted by fast runner

In general it has reminded me of the latest collection of Raf for Jil Sander

I agree with this statement, one of the previous Jil Sander collections Raf created had the minimal obvious bust cups on the dress which I didn't like and I didn't think Raf would bring this to his first Dior Haute Couture collection....he proved me wrong. I'm honestly not a big fan of it, it may be modern, but it just seems quite small and in substantial when worn against a woman's body. Makes the impression that the dresses only really suit women with a small bust, at least the more classic shape of a bustier dress or with a corsetted bodice gives the woman's shape some illusion of an hourglass figure

Originally Posted by hightea_xx

i just feel like the collection, while lovely, was too ready to wear... and we praise simons for his attention to cut and structure, while gaytten did much of the same and yet we criticized him for it? i feel as though something is not right.... gaytten's ss2012 collection was definitely more worthy of the name haute couture that simon's fw2012 showing.

Simon's techniques are very different from Gaytten's. While Bill Gaytten used the ateliers and embroiderers to make plaid patterns out of sequins, Raf Simons made technical and architectural patterns out of unconventional sequins like black beads tipped in bright blue. These patterns are very unique and new to the House of Dior. Also, Gaytten stuck too close to the codes of Dior without bringing anything new, unlike Raf who brought newness with the pairing of black cigarette pants with decorated ball-gown bustiers.

Gaytten's SS2012 Haute Couture collection was very couture, but in the older sense where gowns were fully flared down from the cinched waist, dress trains swept the feet of the attendees, and ball gowns were so big that they were never actually practical to wear. Simons brought a fresh approach to couture, which almost makes some of the new collections by less established new couturiers like Alexis Mabille look dated.

Couture is changing in response to new markets in Asia and the Middle East, because at the end of the day, this form of art is meant to seduce clients into spending. It's no longer only to be worn to Red Carpet events by celebrities. Couture is about exclusivity; about having a garment that is made-to-measure, one-of-a-kind (since clients can customize each look), and had exceptional craftsmanship involving hundreds of hours of work on each piece. Before the emergence of these new markets, couture had to defend its relevance, and it did it by pushing architectural and craftsmanship boundaries to make wow-factor pieces. Galliano understood this need by using couture as an experimental ground.

Originally Posted by michi_chi

and even Gaytten gave the subtle elegance to his shows (Dior's Paris boutique, light coloured background settings), Raf's choice of a strong blue background is a bit too much.

Raf chose a new setting which I felt was very appropriate for bringing a New Look to the House of Dior (as opposed to using the salons of Avenue Montaigne again). The setting with different-coloured rooms with hundreds of thousands of flowers was one of the best metaphors of his collection. From afar, the walls just look blue, but if you take a closer look, you will see that the wall is lined with thousands fresh blue flowers. This mirrors the embroidery of dresses, which upon closer inspection are absolutely outstanding.

And I'm sure it made the show a sensational visual and olfactory experience, much like when Monsieur Dior sewed sprigs of Lily of the Valley to the linings of his dresses to give his audience more than just a visual experience.

Here's what some of the renowned designers who attended his show said:

Marc Jacobs said that the collection was "absolutely magnificent". (recall that Marc Jacobs was originally rumoured to have been selected for the Dior job. As well, he was the one who said that couture is archaic and lacking relevance)

Donatella Versace said: "Before the show, I found it difficult to imagine what Raf would do at Dior but from the very first look today it made total sense."

Alber Elbaz said: "[It was] absolutely poetic. It was perfection. Today was a beautiful marriage between a designer and a house."

Diane von Furstenberg said: "Raf Simons did a SUPERB Dior show! Very DIOR! Another talented Belgian!"

Source: http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/lifesty...bs-245794.html

I looked at it again today and just think it was spectacular..a bit of the unexpected

and quite sophisticated..

Perhaps it was not what many of us would have anticipated, certainly in comparison

to what Galliano has done in the past but not only were there red carpet looks

there were very wearable & beautifully detailed clothes with extraordinary

fabrics..

This was a very special moment for the House of Dior & think that Raf stepped

up to the plate & presented a very fresh approach & "new look" to couture.

And after looking at other collections, Versace, Chanel, Valli, this was

quite special..

Raf Simons interview:




Full multi-angle show:

Well... I was expecting something more from Raf, but this is only his first Haute Couture, let's see what he's gonna do next!

Anyway, I LOOOOOOOVE the tons and tons and tons of flowers wall decorations!

Oh wow, this is so disappointing! This hardly looks like a couture collection but a ready to wear collection. This is really shocking and does not look like Dior at all. As someone previously mentioned, these clothes look dated and old and are way too minimalistic. Dior is known for their extravagant and vibrant couture, and these clothes misses the mark completely. The material patterns themselves are horrible, in my opinion. I forgot who the designer was for Spring Summer 2012 Haute Couture, but i thought that was a great collection despite Galliano being gone. To me, it doesn't seem like it truly reflects Dior. Hopefully the future collections won't be as bad as this. I'm surprised other designers had such high praises for this. Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent. Maybe I miss Galliano too much.

Originally Posted by s.s.m

Oh wow, this is so disappointing! This hardly looks like a couture collection but a ready to wear collection. This is really shocking and does not look like Dior at all. As someone previously mentioned, these clothes look dated and old and are way too minimalistic. Dior is known for their extravagant and vibrant couture, and these clothes misses the mark completely. The material patterns themselves are horrible, in my opinion. I forgot who the designer was for Spring Summer 2012 Haute Couture, but i thought that was a great collection despite Galliano being gone. To me, it doesn't seem like it truly reflects Dior. Hopefully the future collections won't be as bad as this. I'm surprised other designers had such high praises for this. Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent. Maybe I miss Galliano too much.

I miss Galliano too. But when he left the house, I wanted a new look. If the new designer copied Galliano's looks, then the house won't change. Since Galliano has been with the house for 14 years, critics and others have said that Dior looks a bit stagnant because every collection was very Galliano. Despite trying new things each season, Galliano played more with details and embroideries rather than entirely new looks. For instance, even when Galliano used underwear and flowers to inspire his couture collections, he used the two sources of inspiration to produce the same pieces (i.e. Bar suit with jacket and skirt). Raf changed that. The Bar suit was not paired with a skirt, but cigarette pants. In fact, Dior was more "Galliano" than it was "Dior" when Galliano ran the show. THis was very nice, since I love Galliano's work, but it wasn't until Bill Gaytten came into the picture that we understood what Dior really stood for.

Althogh Galliano was brilliant and a master couturier, he was not able to produce a very Dior look, unlike Largerfeld who was able to make an identificable Chanel look. When someone wears Chanel, it's apparent that it's Chanel even without logos because there is a distinctive look. But when someone wears Dior, there was more romantic "Galliano" instead. A Dior piece could've been from Dior, Galliano, or another brand. Thanks to Bill Gaytten, the brand reminded the world what the Dior look was. Raf is continuing this reminder so that one day, people can tell that a dress is Dior without much guessing.

It seems like a lot of people who have commented have been disappointed by the collection. A year ago when I was shocked by Galliano's departure, I would've thought the same if Raf came in right away, probably out of anger and nostalgia over his dismissal. But I think that it's time for change, and Raf is the best person to do it. I'm sure that if the collection looked very Galliano, then the collection would've been heavily criticized and Dior may lose "newness" and "relevance" in the world of fashion. People waited over a year to see what the new designer had in store, and if Raf followed too closely in Galliano's footsteps with the fairy-tale-like clothes, then people would've been even more disappointed because nothing new was offered even though so much time has passed.

Since Galliano cannot be replaced, then I'm glad that Raf chose to do something very different. If Raf tried to do Galliano, then the results will surely not be as good as Galliano's.

Fashion is always evolving & changing. I think we all need to give Raf a chance.

I thought the Bar suit was very modern & wearable for so many women of today

when paired with a cigarette pant.. tres chic

Galliano was always very dreamy & full of fantasy perhaps that element is missing

for many but as fashion changes new thoughts & ideas are brought in for the

time we are in now.

Several of the couture collections showed very wearable clothes minus

embellishments which is perhaps the direction that many desisgners will be

going.

Originally Posted by averagejoe

I miss Galliano too. But when he left the house, I wanted a new look. If the new designer copied Galliano's looks, then the house won't change. Since Galliano has been with the house for 14 years, critics and others have said that Dior looks a bit stagnant because every collection was very Galliano. Despite trying new things each season, Galliano played more with details and embroideries rather than entirely new looks. For instance, even when Galliano used underwear and flowers to inspire his couture collections, he used the two sources of inspiration to produce the same pieces (i.e. Bar suit with jacket and skirt). Raf changed that. The Bar suit was not paired with a skirt, but cigarette pants. In fact, Dior was more "Galliano" than it was "Dior" when Galliano ran the show. THis was very nice, since I love Galliano's work, but it wasn't until Bill Gaytten came into the picture that we understood what Dior really stood for. Althogh Galliano was brilliant and a master couturier, he was not able to produce a very Dior look, unlike Largerfeld who was able to make an identificable Chanel look. When someone wears Chanel, it's apparent that it's Chanel even without logos because there is a distinctive look. But when someone wears Dior, there was more romantic "Galliano" instead. A Dior piece could've been from Dior, Galliano, or another brand. Thanks to Bill Gaytten, the brand reminded the world what the Dior look was. Raf is continuing this reminder so that one day, people can tell that a dress is Dior without much guessing. It seems like a lot of people who have commented have been disappointed by the collection. A year ago when I was shocked by Galliano's departure, I would've thought the same if Raf came in right away, probably out of anger and nostalgia over his dismissal. But I think that it's time for change, and Raf is the best person to do it. I'm sure that if the collection looked very Galliano, then the collection would've been heavily criticized and Dior may lose "newness" and "relevance" in the world of fashion. People waited over a year to see what the new designer had in store, and if Raf followed too closely in Galliano's footsteps with the fairy-tale-like clothes, then people would've been even more disappointed because nothing new was offered even though so much time has passed. Since Galliano cannot be replaced, then I'm glad that Raf chose to do something very different. If Raf tried to do Galliano, then the results will surely not be as good as Galliano's.

That is a great and well-said explanation averagejoe! You got the point when you mentioned that Raf decided to do something different bcs he won't do as good as Galliano!

NY Times review in Thursday Styles by Cathy Horyn..( a short recap)

"The hardest thing to realize in fashion is that the future lies in the past. The second
hardest thing is to forget the past".

"That precise turn of mind is what Raf Simons showed inhis forst collection for Dior,
the high point of the fall haute couture shows. In almost everyone of the 54 outfits,
in the purposeful use of craft, Mr. Simons made a link to the modernity & energy that
Christian Dior brought to fashion after World War II.Those themes included sculptiral lines,
ravishing color, a preference for pockets, a sense of chic feminity but also ease.
Mr. Simons then put those ideas through his own filter."

"The collection was beautiful. modest & thoroughly engaging."

The article continues: "I haven't been this excited to see a show in a long time,
said Emmanuelle Alt, the editor in chief of French Vogue. Today I'm going to see
something I've never seen before."

"The Bar jacket appeared throughout the show, but the most stunning rendition was in black wool with the base embroidered in thousands of dangling black beads tipped in red."

"I think he was the perfect choice Mr. Arnault visibly pleased said after the show".

"He's full of ideas and he's also very easy to work with."

I happen to agree... I think Mr. Simons was a superb choice & our expectations
may be high, but I think he will prove that he is an extraordinary talent & will
bring something very special to the House of Dior.

Originally Posted by hotshot

I happen to agree... I think Mr. Simons was a superb choice & our expectations may be high, but I think he will prove that he is an extraordinary talent & will bring something very special to the House of Dior.

I agree as well. He has an incredible ability to marry the romanticism of Dior with modernity. He can take the brand into the future!

Originally Posted by averagejoe

I agree as well. He has an incredible ability to marry the romanticism of Dior with modernity. He can take the brand into the future!

Having seen the close up photos you posted earlier, averagejoe, I do agree that it's more couture because of the attention to detail Raf put into his designs. It's definitely propelling Dior to the future with the use of M'sieur Dior's classic shapes (the bar jacket, the flared skirt) with his own modern takes on fashion. I'm still hoping that he will stop using the small cups on the bodice of the bustiers and dresses that he sets down the runway, it's definitely not something I feel suits a woman's body

Originally Posted by michi_chi

Having seen the close up photos you posted earlier, averagejoe, I do agree that it's more couture because of the attention to detail Raf put into his designs. It's definitely propelling Dior to the future with the use of M'sieur Dior's classic shapes (the bar jacket, the flared skirt) with his own modern takes on fashion. I'm still hoping that he will stop using the small cups on the bodice of the bustiers and dresses that he sets down the runway, it's definitely not something I feel suits a woman's body

I think he did the pointed bust cups as a statement. Couture clients can customize their orders and alter the bust cups, so it's more for the Haaute COuture show rather than for the clients.

Just as Galliano made similar "cups" for the Dior SS2009 RTW collection, but only for one season, Raf won't continue this look for long.