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bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 12:08 AM

Please help support us at the LA Zoo and help us keep our beloved asian elephant bull, Billy. The LA city council will be voting on this on Wednesday. The public has already voted a long time ago in favor of his new exhibit in which 12 million dollars has already been spent. The rest of the money is already set aside for completion. Here is a link for more info:

http://www.lazoo.org/elephants/index.html

And here is a link to the city council members. Please, please e-mail them before Wednesday and let them know he needs to stay here at his home and let us complete the expansion for him.

http://www.lacity.org/council.htm

You do not need to be a resident to let e-mail them. Only someone who cares about Billy.

I will be more than happy to answer any questions and dispel all the rumors and outright lies that are being told about the care Billy receives. We love him and only want the absolute best for him. We have been fighting for this expansion for a long time. Please help us.

TIA

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 12:31 PM

I am pretty emotionally exhausted at this point but wanted to include more info on what is going on.
The so-called animal rights people are trying to put a stop to the completion of our expansion of Billy's exhibit and have stopped at nothing to have him shipped away from the only home he has known since he was 4. What these idiots (yes idiots) don't understand is that moving a 15,000 lb animal could be deadly as he has not travelled since he was brought to the zoo (he was an orphan) and "shipping fever" is something that he could very easily die from. This is what scares me the most and has me in tears even at this moment.
They want to ship him to a "sanctuary" and while the name has all sorts of warm and fuzzy connotations, sanctuaries are run completely on donations hence are often understaffed and often provide a lower quality of medical care. Elephants in sanctuaries are not any safer from disease and agressiveness by animals who have a history of it is not circumvented simply by being there (BTW, Billy does not have this history. He is a big gentle softie!). There have been many instances ofelephants (as well as other animals) attacking and sometimes even killing keepers at these sanctuaries (who are sometimes only "volunteers" and not professionals) The irony is that a couple of the ex-keepers from LA who have joined the activists are the very ones who were abusing the elephants 20 years ago. They were fired. And now what we believe is a personal vendetta against their former employer are joining those ill-informed activists and filling their heads with lies and somehow forgetting their violent past with these animals. What they are not telling you as well is that even though Billy would have more room to roam in a sanctuary, doesn't mean he will. His yard and barn now are his territory and his comfort zone and even getting him to move into his new yard is going to take a very long while as he would have to get used to the idea of venturing out beyond his comfort zone. Can you imagine him in an even stranger land not knowing anyone? He would not be with other elephants either because bulls are very territorial and solitary unless breeding. And even then, after breeding, bulls remain just outside of the herd for protection. They do not have anything to do with raising the calf. It is NOT Ozzie and Harriet. The mother and aunties do this. He would still be by himself in a sanctuary. Please don't believe the Walt Disney scenario these liars are feeding the public.
Again, very happy to answer any questions.

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:06 PM

Here is a link to a very informative article as well:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brenda..._b_146226.html

Irishgal · Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:17 PM

Oh man this is bad. It may not help, but I will call Rick Caruso tonight when I arrive in San Fran on business travel. He knows a few of those ppl and I know Rick from long ago. (Rick owns The Grove and was on the LAPD Police Commission). Anyone have any hooks with the Gov's office?

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Irishgal

Oh man this is bad. It may not help, but I will call Rick Caruso tonight when I arrive in San Fran on business travel. He knows a few of those ppl and I know Rick from long ago. (Rick owns The Grove and was on the LAPD Police Commission). Anyone have any hooks with the Gov's office?

I love you so much right now and would appreciate any help at all. We are desperate. I cannot tell you the anxiety I have right now about this.

bag-mania · Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:46 PM

This is another frustrating example of people who feel "good intentions" outweigh common sense and actual knowledge. It seems like many animal-rights people know very little about animals, but just jump on the activist bandwagon because it makes them feel good about themselves.

Good luck in saving your elephant!

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 04:33 PM

thank you bag-mania. just to show you how uninformed these people are, they wish to see "Billy reunited with his friend Ruby at the sanctuary she is now at." First of all, Billy and Ruby were never "friends" as a) they are different species - asian and african - and were never housed together in the first place and b) being a bull, even if Billy were housed with a female of his own species, he would end up killing her. They only come together to mate. I know people love to think about all of them being buddies but it is just not so. Even introducing an elephant to a new herd is risky because the herd does not always accept the newcomer.

dallas · Dec 2nd, 2008, 05:49 PM

This is probably a stupid question but who "owns" Billy? Do the animal wrongs people have any "claim" on him? There doesn't seem to be any sense in this, surely he is better off where he is, where he is loved and properly looked after?
What can I do from Australia? Anything? I'll help if I can.
Hugs girl.

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by dallas

This is probably a stupid question but who "owns" Billy? Do the animal wrongs people have any "claim" on him? There doesn't seem to be any sense in this, surely he is better off where he is, where he is loved and properly looked after?
What can I do from Australia? Anything? I'll help if I can.
Hugs girl.

Thank you so much. He is owned by the city of Los Angeles, pretty much all the taxpayers. We are a city zoo. Everyone can help. All you have to be is someone who wants the best for Billy. Have you ever visited our zoo? You can still e-mail any of the council members to let them know how you feel.

dallas · Dec 2nd, 2008, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by bagnshoofetish

Thank you so much. He is owned by the city of Los Angeles, pretty much all the taxpayers. We are a city zoo. Everyone can help. All you have to be is someone who wants the best for Billy. Have you ever visited our zoo? You can still e-mail any of the council members to let them know how you feel.

No, never visited, but would love to. I'll get some buddies together and we'll start sending emails.This just isn't right and it doesn't make any sense ... Billy is getting a bigger enclosure in the home he knows and loves and these

morons want to move him? They must be insane.

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:01 PM

^^^ I will be at the city council meeting tomorrow morning. Its going to be a very emotional day. If we lose him, and something happens to him during shipping, his blood will be on the animal rights peoples hands and I will never forgive them.

boxermom · Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:03 PM

bagnshoo, you've brought up so many good points that I think about when I visit a zoo. (we were at the National Zoo last Saturday for the Zoo Lights; our son's family are members) When I read about animals being moved around from zoo to zoo, and I understand that an elephant is a special category, I think about how unsettling that must be. The National Zoo is moving its Hippo after 20+ years and people are very upset. The keeper is in tears about it, worried about the trauma to the animal. People act like these animals are pins on a map to be moved at will.

I'll do my part and email my concerns. Crossing my fingers for Billy to stay at the home he knows and loves.

bagnshoofetish · Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:13 PM

Thanks Boxer. I wish people would listen to how dangerous it is to move large mammals around. Ruby, our African elephant who was moved to the sanctuary up north, was a different case. She was once owned by Circus Vargas so was very accustomed to travel. She did it like a pro. Circus Vargas loaned her to the zoo then forgot all about her and we never reminded them that we had her for obvious reasons. Hence, the big ol goof lived quite happily with us and it was always part of our plan to find an African herd for her to live with. The first herd at Knoxville Zoo we sent her to, never accepted her. With time, they may have but once again it wasn't happening soon enough for the animal rights people so she got sent back to us. (Because as you know, animals are supposed to get to know each other in OUR time frame, not theirs.

) She finally got sent to PAWS (a sanctuary near Sacramento) and the herd there loved her. She has a little friend now too. Now here is the twist, the last I heard, she was not coming out of her barn there. And no one knows why. But she lives in a sanctuary right? Thats supposed to guarantee her happiness, right? Its another thing that is stressing me out because I need to know whats going on with her there.

elle tee · Dec 2nd, 2008, 07:04 PM

Yikes! What a terrible idea. Talk about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Sounds like these animal rights people are taking things a little too far. I grew up in LA and used to love visiting the zoo. I will email the city council members right now. Good luck, Billy and Bagnshoo!

shushopn · Dec 2nd, 2008, 07:10 PM

I'm in - I e-mailed...I really hope it helps. Poor thing!

Dec 2nd, 2008, 12:08 AM	#1
bagnshoofetish OP watching the sunset Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 20,191	Please - help us keep our beloved elephant.... Please help support us at the LA Zoo and help us keep our beloved asian elephant bull, Billy. The LA city council will be voting on this on Wednesday. The public has already voted a long time ago in favor of his new exhibit in which 12 million dollars has already been spent. The rest of the money is already set aside for completion. Here is a link for more info: http://www.lazoo.org/elephants/index.html And here is a link to the city council members. Please, please e-mail them before Wednesday and let them know he needs to stay here at his home and let us complete the expansion for him. http://www.lacity.org/council.htm You do not need to be a resident to let e-mail them. Only someone who cares about Billy. I will be more than happy to answer any questions and dispel all the rumors and outright lies that are being told about the care Billy receives. We love him and only want the absolute best for him. We have been fighting for this expansion for a long time. Please help us. TIA
	__________________

Dec 2nd, 2008, 12:31 PM	#2
bagnshoofetish OP watching the sunset Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 20,191	I am pretty emotionally exhausted at this point but wanted to include more info on what is going on. The so-called animal rights people are trying to put a stop to the completion of our expansion of Billy's exhibit and have stopped at nothing to have him shipped away from the only home he has known since he was 4. What these idiots (yes idiots) don't understand is that moving a 15,000 lb animal could be deadly as he has not travelled since he was brought to the zoo (he was an orphan) and "shipping fever" is something that he could very easily die from. This is what scares me the most and has me in tears even at this moment. They want to ship him to a "sanctuary" and while the name has all sorts of warm and fuzzy connotations, sanctuaries are run completely on donations hence are often understaffed and often provide a lower quality of medical care. Elephants in sanctuaries are not any safer from disease and agressiveness by animals who have a history of it is not circumvented simply by being there (BTW, Billy does not have this history. He is a big gentle softie!). There have been many instances ofelephants (as well as other animals) attacking and sometimes even killing keepers at these sanctuaries (who are sometimes only "volunteers" and not professionals) The irony is that a couple of the ex-keepers from LA who have joined the activists are the very ones who were abusing the elephants 20 years ago. They were fired. And now what we believe is a personal vendetta against their former employer are joining those ill-informed activists and filling their heads with lies and somehow forgetting their violent past with these animals. What they are not telling you as well is that even though Billy would have more room to roam in a sanctuary, doesn't mean he will. His yard and barn now are his territory and his comfort zone and even getting him to move into his new yard is going to take a very long while as he would have to get used to the idea of venturing out beyond his comfort zone. Can you imagine him in an even stranger land not knowing anyone? He would not be with other elephants either because bulls are very territorial and solitary unless breeding. And even then, after breeding, bulls remain just outside of the herd for protection. They do not have anything to do with raising the calf. It is NOT Ozzie and Harriet. The mother and aunties do this. He would still be by himself in a sanctuary. Please don't believe the Walt Disney scenario these liars are feeding the public. Again, very happy to answer any questions.
	__________________

Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:06 PM	#3
bagnshoofetish OP watching the sunset Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 20,191	Here is a link to a very informative article as well: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brenda..._b_146226.html
	__________________

Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:17 PM	#4
Irishgal Over and out... Joined: Apr 2006 Location: The intersection of bitter and sweet Posts: 10,909	Oh man this is bad. It may not help, but I will call Rick Caruso tonight when I arrive in San Fran on business travel. He knows a few of those ppl and I know Rick from long ago. (Rick owns The Grove and was on the LAPD Police Commission). Anyone have any hooks with the Gov's office?
	__________________ "A horse gallops with his lungs, Perseveres with his heart, And wins with his character." ~ Tesio

Dec 2nd, 2008, 03:46 PM	#6
bag-mania Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,223	This is another frustrating example of people who feel "good intentions" outweigh common sense and actual knowledge. It seems like many animal-rights people know very little about animals, but just jump on the activist bandwagon because it makes them feel good about themselves. Good luck in saving your elephant!
bag-mania Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,223

Dec 2nd, 2008, 04:33 PM	#7
bagnshoofetish OP watching the sunset Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 20,191	thank you bag-mania. just to show you how uninformed these people are, they wish to see "Billy reunited with his friend Ruby at the sanctuary she is now at." First of all, Billy and Ruby were never "friends" as a) they are different species - asian and african - and were never housed together in the first place and b) being a bull, even if Billy were housed with a female of his own species, he would end up killing her. They only come together to mate. I know people love to think about all of them being buddies but it is just not so. Even introducing an elephant to a new herd is risky because the herd does not always accept the newcomer.
	__________________ Last edited by bagnshoofetish; Dec 2nd, 2008 at 05:00 PM.

Dec 2nd, 2008, 05:49 PM	#8
dallas Yeah ano Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,223	This is probably a stupid question but who "owns" Billy? Do the animal wrongs people have any "claim" on him? There doesn't seem to be any sense in this, surely he is better off where he is, where he is loved and properly looked after? What can I do from Australia? Anything? I'll help if I can. Hugs girl.
dallas Yeah ano Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,223	__________________ Use your heart to love somebody and if your heart is big enough, use your heart to love everybody.

Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:01 PM	#11
bagnshoofetish OP watching the sunset Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 20,191	^^^ I will be at the city council meeting tomorrow morning. Its going to be a very emotional day. If we lose him, and something happens to him during shipping, his blood will be on the animal rights peoples hands and I will never forgive them.
	__________________

Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:03 PM	#12
boxermom Member Joined: Aug 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13,551	bagnshoo, you've brought up so many good points that I think about when I visit a zoo. (we were at the National Zoo last Saturday for the Zoo Lights; our son's family are members) When I read about animals being moved around from zoo to zoo, and I understand that an elephant is a special category, I think about how unsettling that must be. The National Zoo is moving its Hippo after 20+ years and people are very upset. The keeper is in tears about it, worried about the trauma to the animal. People act like these animals are pins on a map to be moved at will. I'll do my part and email my concerns. Crossing my fingers for Billy to stay at the home he knows and loves.

Dec 2nd, 2008, 06:13 PM	#13
bagnshoofetish OP watching the sunset Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 20,191	Thanks Boxer. I wish people would listen to how dangerous it is to move large mammals around. Ruby, our African elephant who was moved to the sanctuary up north, was a different case. She was once owned by Circus Vargas so was very accustomed to travel. She did it like a pro. Circus Vargas loaned her to the zoo then forgot all about her and we never reminded them that we had her for obvious reasons. Hence, the big ol goof lived quite happily with us and it was always part of our plan to find an African herd for her to live with. The first herd at Knoxville Zoo we sent her to, never accepted her. With time, they may have but once again it wasn't happening soon enough for the animal rights people so she got sent back to us. (Because as you know, animals are supposed to get to know each other in OUR time frame, not theirs. ) She finally got sent to PAWS (a sanctuary near Sacramento) and the herd there loved her. She has a little friend now too. Now here is the twist, the last I heard, she was not coming out of her barn there. And no one knows why. But she lives in a sanctuary right? Thats supposed to guarantee her happiness, right? Its another thing that is stressing me out because I need to know whats going on with her there.
	__________________

Dec 2nd, 2008, 07:04 PM	#14
elle tee Member Joined: Dec 2006 Location: nyc Posts: 3,436	Yikes! What a terrible idea. Talk about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Sounds like these animal rights people are taking things a little too far. I grew up in LA and used to love visiting the zoo. I will email the city council members right now. Good luck, Billy and Bagnshoo!

Dec 2nd, 2008, 07:10 PM	#15
shushopn I Feel Pretty! Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 5,721	I'm in - I e-mailed...I really hope it helps. Poor thing!
	__________________ My Life - the Comedy at www.kykap.blogspot.com

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